You haven't been watching Stafford and Ott is at best a second line player. Putting Grigs on the first line (or even second) at RW would be much better than having Stafford or someone else there.
- Herzeleid

I have been watching and grigorenko hasn't shown me anything. He gets less and less ice time a game for a reason now. I know stafford and ott aren't top line players but just because a player is young doesn't mean you put him in the top line. He's just not ready and the sabres aren't tanking yet

So, Explain Stafford's 20+ minutes to me then.
- seedy

He averages 19 and even though he's not very good, out of all there RWs he does give them the best chance to score. I feel like he can be the scapegoat for alot of things and fans just watch waiting for him to make a mistake. I watch with an unbiased view and I don't think he's that bad and he had a pretty solid game yesterday which is why he got more than 20 minutes.

He averages 19 and even though he's not very good, out of all there RWs he does give them the best chance to score. I feel like he can be the scapegoat for alot of things and fans just watch waiting for him to make a mistake. I watch with an unbiased view and I don't think he's that bad and he had a pretty solid game yesterday which is why he got more than 20 minutes.
- MattDuchene9

I'm not here to talk about how you "feel" about Drew Stafford.
Nothing stated above give me any indication of earned ice time.

He averages 19 and even though he's not very good, out of all there RWs he does give them the best chance to score. I feel like he can be the scapegoat for alot of things and fans just watch waiting for him to make a mistake. I watch with an unbiased view and I don't think he's that bad and he had a pretty solid game yesterday which is why he got more than 20 minutes.
- MattDuchene9

Stafford at best was ok. Early on he fell over his own feet twice and turned the puck over. He did get better. He is a goal scorer who doent score. So he is useless.
He doesnt pk. Doesnt score. Not physical and could be. Plays average on the back check. A guy who needs a fresh start somewhere else.

I'm not here to talk about how you "feel" about Drew Stafford.
Nothing stated above give me any indication of earned ice time.
- seedy

Ott and stafford at this time are both better than grigorenko so there is not reason to move grigorenko up. If he was truly a good player right now than he would make his line mates look better and shouldn't be dependent on his line mates. I think the sabres coaching staff knows better than us and it would be a dumb move if they gave grigorenko almost 20 minutes on the top line because he's not ready for that

Stafford at best was ok. Early on he fell over his own feet twice and turned the puck over. He did get better. He is a goal scorer who doent score. So he is useless.
He doesnt pk. Doesnt score. Not physical and could be. Plays average on the back check. A guy who needs a fresh start somewhere else.
- hafgod

Unfortunately "ok" gets you top line minutes on the sabres

Stafford at best was ok. Early on he fell over his own feet twice and turned the puck over. He did get better. He is a goal scorer who doent score. So he is useless.
He doesnt pk. Doesnt score. Not physical and could be. Plays average on the back check. A guy who needs a fresh start somewhere else.
- hafgod

And yesterday he had a pretty solid defensive game, saved a goal

And yesterday he had a pretty solid defensive game, saved a goal
- MattDuchene9

Not arguing he made a nice def. play. Also saw a few where he missed his back check assign. Problem is he is on the team to score. He has not in awhile here.
Time to try it in another zip code

Ott and stafford at this time are both better than grigorenko so there is not reason to move grigorenko up. If he was truly a good player right now than he would make his line mates look better and shouldn't be dependent on his line mates. I think the sabres coaching staff knows better than us and it would be a dumb move if they gave grigorenko almost 20 minutes on the top line because he's not ready for that
- MattDuchene9

I agree. Grigorenko is just floating. The other 2 on his line (Flynn, Girgensons) are constantly moving their feet and trying to hustle.

Grigorenko/Hodgson/Vanek might be the biggest liability line in the history of the NHL

Ott and stafford at this time are both better than grigorenko so there is not reason to move grigorenko up. If he was truly a good player right now than he would make his line mates look better and shouldn't be dependent on his line mates. I think the sabres coaching staff knows better than us and it would be a dumb move if they gave grigorenko almost 20 minutes on the top line because he's not ready for that
- MattDuchene9

Why not. How on earth is he going to develop playing with Scott and Kaletta.
We have no great centers who are doing much of anything. Let him play. Let him play. Let him play.

Why not. How on earth is he going to develop playing with Scott and Kaletta.
We have no great centers who are doing much of anything. Let him play. Let him play. Let him play.
- hafgod

He will play a lot when we are officially out of it. Which could be sooner than later. They owe it to the fans to try to win. Grigorenko has literally done nothing to be put on the 1st line. Stafford regardless of how bad he is now is a former 30 goal scorer and 3 time 20 goal scorer

I agree. Grigorenko is just floating. The other 2 on his line (Flynn, Girgensons) are constantly moving their feet and trying to hustle.

Grigorenko/Hodgson/Vanek might be the biggest liability line in the history of the NHL
- sbroads24

Stop. Vanek is not a liability its not his job to be down low. Hodson yes. grigorenko is not minus anything crazy when he is on the ice. Flynn is skating hard because he is not very good at it. Girgs might be a nice player. I watched him live for the first time. Foligno looked way better

Ott and stafford at this time are both better than grigorenko so there is not reason to move grigorenko up. If he was truly a good player right now than he would make his line mates look better and shouldn't be dependent on his line mates. I think the sabres coaching staff knows better than us and it would be a dumb move if they gave grigorenko almost 20 minutes on the top line because he's not ready for that
- MattDuchene9

Well, the point I made several pages back is that he probably shouldn't be here, but he's also too good to be in Junior at this point (and too young for Rochester).
So, the combination of the "earn your ice time" theory and our coach who "excells at developing young players" isn't really panning out for this kid or the fans. At this point there's only 2 opinions on Grigorenko....people who think he sucks and people who don't think he's being used properly. My opinion is that if he was surrounded by better players (see: mentored by Vanek) we might see some of his potential. And if it's at the cost of bumping Stafford down a line or 2, I really don't see much of a scoring drop off at this time.
Bottom line is we either need to develop him, or send him back down....but letting him rot on the fourth line isn't doing any one any good.

Stop. Vanek is not a liability its not his job to be down low. Hodson yes. grigorenko is not minus anything crazy when he is on the ice. Flynn is skating hard because he is not very good at it. Girgs might be a nice player. I watched him live for the first time. Foligno looked way better
- hafgod

Ok. If you can't see how awful Hodgson and Vanek are defensively than there's no point continuing this convo. Also Flynn is an excellent skater.

Why not. How on earth is he going to develop playing with Scott and Kaletta.
We have no great centers who are doing much of anything. Let him play. Let him play. Let him play.
- hafgod

He plays with girgensons and Flynn I thought? They're trying to win games not tank and develop their players. Every player except for a select few has to start on the 3rd or 4th line and work their way up. Mackinnon yakupov and so many top picks are still playing on the 3rd line. Just because a player is young doesn't mean they automatically get good ice time. Drouin didn't make the lightning because they're developing him right, but according to your logic you'd want drouin playing on a top line even though he's not ready

He will play a lot when we are officially out of it. Which could be sooner than later. They owe it to the fans to try to win. Grigorenko has literally done nothing to be put on the 1st line. Stafford regardless of how bad he is now is a former 30 goal scorer and 3 time 20 goal scorer
- sbroads24

What has Porter done. He is a mucker. Ennis really. They cant score. There best raw talent is a center who did not play much.

He plays with girgensons and Flynn I thought? They're trying to win games not tank and develop their players. Every player except for a select few has to start on the 3rd or 4th line and work their way up. Mackinnon yakupov and so many top picks are still playing on the 3rd line. Just because a player is young doesn't mean they automatically get good ice time. Drouin didn't make the lightning because they're developing him right, but according to your logic you'd want drouin playing on a top line even though he's not ready
- MattDuchene9

He played third line for a while. Then Rolston put Porter on third for the whole last period pretty much

What has Porter done. He is a mucker. Ennis really. They cant score. There best raw talent is a center who did not play much.
- hafgod

Ennis is another proven NHL player. I honestly don't care if he's had a bad 4 games, theres no reason to bump a guy whos floating when others are busting their ass out there

Ott and stafford at this time are both better than grigorenko so there is not reason to move grigorenko up. If he was truly a good player right now than he would make his line mates look better and shouldn't be dependent on his line mates. I think the sabres coaching staff knows better than us and it would be a dumb move if they gave grigorenko almost 20 minutes on the top line because he's not ready for that
- MattDuchene9

Stafford would look just as bad or worse with the ice time and line mates Grigs has.
Grigs was never really given a chance with good line mates so if Stafford can't do anything right now on the first or second line, why not try Grigs?

He plays with girgensons and Flynn I thought? They're trying to win games not tank and develop their players. Every player except for a select few has to start on the 3rd or 4th line and work their way up. Mackinnon yakupov and so many top picks are still playing on the 3rd line. Just because a player is young doesn't mean they automatically get good ice time. Drouin didn't make the lightning because they're developing him right, but according to your logic you'd want drouin playing on a top line even though he's not ready
- MattDuchene9

I think its a joke what they did for Drouin. The juniors is not a place for a kid who already dominated it. Give him the nine game tryout and see how he does.

Ennis is another proven NHL player. I honestly don't care if he's had a bad 4 games, theres no reason to bump a guy whos floating when others are busting their ass out there
- sbroads24

I agree. Just tell me the guys you want on this team busting ass. Flynn and porter dont count they have to bust ass just to even play

I think its a joke what they did for Drouin. The juniors is not a place for a kid who already dominated it. Give him the nine game tryout and see how he does.
- hafgod

When you have a guy like Grigorenko who is floating and not showing any urgency on the ice, this is how you have to deal with him. I have faith he will turn out, but it's not good that he doesn't feel the need to play with deperation. Look at how Girgensons plays, 100% all the time. Grigo needs to show that

Stafford would look just as bad or worse with the ice time and line mates Grigs has.
Grigs was never really given a chance with good line mates so if Stafford can't do anything right now on the first or second line, why not try Grigs?
- Herzeleid

Stop with these good line mates thing. Just because he doesn't play with vanek doesn't mean he's not given a chance. Why would he play any better with vanek and hodgson? He wouldn't play any better they'd just make him look better

I think its a joke what they did for Drouin. The juniors is not a place for a kid who already dominated it. Give him the nine game tryout and see how he does.
- hafgod

Stevie Y is taking the Detroit method to Tampa. Its shocking Connolly isnt up yet.

He will play a lot when we are officially out of it. Which could be sooner than later. They owe it to the fans to try to win. Grigorenko has literally done nothing to be put on the 1st line. Stafford regardless of how bad he is now is a former 30 goal scorer and 3 time 20 goal scorer
- sbroads24

No. They owe us a long overdue rebuild instead of trying to miss the playoffs and not get a much needed top pick.