I think you continue to miss the point.
No one is saying that Grabovksi sucks....quite the contrary, he is a talented hockey player. But the reason the Leafs bought him out is not as simple as looking at his talent alone.
- Cooshie

I get your point, thank you.

Good teams find a way to accomodate wienerly personalities.

Ever heard of Glenn Anderson?

he sat on the open market for weeks, and got way less than he was bought out for, after bit*hing about being bought out....obviously i can't prove anything, but perception usually leads one to conclusion
- clark_griswold

of course he did. he was misused by his coach and had a horrible season.. not to mention he was ill for a large chunk of the year

with the cap going down nobody could afford to assume the risk.

either way, he has 5 points in 3 games

why?

he's healthy and being used correctly.

look at it this way

the leafs gave up a solid 2C who they were playing in a checking role for a 3C being played on the top line

sorry.. but i still think it was a mistake.. probably always will.

carlyle has his favorites... just like any coach.. but this is where Nonis has to say to him, listen Randy, you need to play this guy in the top 6 so he can re-prove himself so i can move him.

thats fine.. but for carlyle to shove into the depths of the lineup all but destroying his value is NOT being a team player when it comes to being part of the entire organization.

its not that they decided to go another route that bothers me.. its the manner in how they did it.

they're basically doing the same thing to liles right now.

carlyle doesnt like him so he all but destroys his career... i dont respect that in a coach.
- Dozzer

You want responsibility, work for it. The 2nd line C on the 3rd line arguement is invalid, that's whete Kadri was. Grabbo flat got outworked by a 22 year old, complacency happened and there is no time for that on a winning roster

I get your point, thank you.

Good teams find a way to accomodate wienerly personalities.

Ever heard of Glenn Anderson?
- Atomic Wedgie

I guess the Leafs suck then!!!

He got them to the playoffs last year. He's turned this team around.

I like that in a coach.
- faceto27

id say the players did that - with our best goaltending in 10 years.

and moreso burke than nonis or carlyle...who didnt call a timeout in game 7.

look at it this way

the leafs gave up a solid 2C who they were playing in a checking role for a 3C being played on the top line

sorry.. but i still think it was a mistake.. probably always will.

carlyle has his favorites... just like any coach.. but this is where Nonis has to say to him, listen Randy, you need to play this guy in the top 6 so he can re-prove himself so i can move him.

thats fine.. but for carlyle to shove into the depths of the lineup all but destroying his value is NOT being a team player when it comes to being part of the entire organization.

its not that they decided to go another route that bothers me.. its the manner in how they did it.

they're basically doing the same thing to liles right now.

carlyle doesnt like him so he all but destroys his career... i dont respect that in a coach.
- Dozzer

I think you're being dramatic Dozzer.. destroy his career?

Bozak isn't a #1 C but neither was Grabovski. One plays well with Kessel (the super star on the team) the other didn't.

of course he did. he was misused by his coach and had a horrible season.. not to mention he was ill for a large chunk of the year

with the cap going down nobody could afford to assume the risk.

either way, he has 5 points in 3 games

why?

he's healthy and being used correctly.
- Dozzer

Well, by that reasoning, I guess as long as he stays healthy and is used correctly he well end up with 137pts!

Sure thing, just add Kadri, Riemer, Gunnarson and this years first.
- Artyukhin76

Yzerman will offer us Greg Malone for all that.

id say the players did that - with our best goaltending in 10 years.

and moreso burke than nonis or carlyle...who didnt call a timeout in game 7.
- big_dion

Pretty much the same team as the year before. RC pulling the strings was the difference.

Liles and Grabbo are not the same thing.

Liles can't play NHL hockey in the top 4 right now. Seriously, he just can't.

And #5,6 and 7 can be used better by young guys, PK guys, etc.

I really wish Liles could refind his game. I really liked him pre-concussion.

But he really does suck right now. And the NHL is a business - you can't get sentimental.

He's on the Marlies because he's not good enough to play with the Leafs.
- Atomic Wedgie

he's on the marlies because they dont have room for him under the cap.

He had 2P in 3GP and was a plus 2 in preseason.

he is more than capable. he just doesnt play physical.. so carlyle ruins his career.

i understand that carlyle is a decent coach.. but I do not like the way he handles players. these guys ARE NHL capable players.. but they dont suit carlyle's approach to the game. so instead of playing them for a couple months so they retain their market value and can be moved they get benched or misused effectively destroying their value.

Bozak isn't a #1 C but neither was Grabovski. One plays well with Kessel (the super star on the team) the other didn't.
- Mr_Smokey

This is a myth that has been proven false numerous times.

I think you're being dramatic Dozzer.. destroy his career?

Bozak isn't a #1 C but neither was Grabovski. One plays well with Kessel (the super star on the team) the other didn't.
- Mr_Smokey

Grabovski actually played better with Kessel when they were paired together.

As always I don't base anything on stats but what I see with my own two eyes. Rielly reads the game way better then Gardiner ever dreamed of. Franson had a bad game. Rielly's partner.
- honesthockey

You're joking right?

This is a myth that has been proven false numerous times.
- BlowMonkey

Right so the GM and management team missed this but you seemed to catch it..?

he's on the marlies because they dont have room for him under the cap.

He had 2P in 3GP and was a plus 2 in preseason.

he is more than capable. he just doesnt play physical.. so carlyle ruins his career.

i understand that carlyle is a decent coach.. but I do not like the way he handles players. these guys ARE NHL capable players.. but they dont suit carlyle's approach to the game. so instead of playing them for a couple months so they retain their market value and can be moved they get benched or misused effectively destroying their value.
- Dozzer

Who would you have sitting ahead of Liles?? Keep in mind that there are
Cap ramifications.

Go

You want responsibility, work for it. The 2nd line C on the 3rd line arguement is invalid, that's whete Kadri was. Grabbo flat got outworked by a 22 year old, complacency happened and there is no time for that on a winning roster
- Jay Uller

NOTHING to do with kadri being vs poopty 5-6 D men and grinder lines.

everything to do with Grabovski having to shut down top lines and getting no powerplay time!

Jay, this is the most out to lunch post ive ever seen from you.

Right so the GM and management team missed this but you seemed to catch it..?
- Mr_Smokey

Actually you just have to look at the numbers instead of talking out your ass and you'll find the truth - has nothing to do with me.

And now he's playing with Ovechkin.

He must really suck.
- Atomic Wedgie

bozak is playing with kessel, isnt' that the ONLY reason bozak is good according to this site? don't see your point

Actually you just have to look at the numbers instead of talking out your ass and you'll find the truth - has nothing to do with me.
- BlowMonkey

Numbers aren't everything guy, obviously the team didn't feel that Grabovski/Kessel was as stromg as Bozak/Kessel. Kessel is a top 1o point producing forward 2 years in a row, playing with Bozak. Get a clue.

he's on the marlies because they dont have room for him under the cap.

He had 2P in 3GP and was a plus 2 in preseason.

he is more than capable. he just doesnt play physical.. so carlyle ruins his career.

i understand that carlyle is a decent coach.. but I do not like the way he handles players. these guys ARE NHL capable players.. but they dont suit carlyle's approach to the game. so instead of playing them for a couple months so they retain their market value and can be moved they get benched or misused effectively destroying their value.
- Dozzer

Carlyle is not a players coach by any means but he finds ways to win games. I honestly still wish we gave Eakins the job. It does frustrate me that he seemed to favor Rielly over Gardiner at the end of the game, which was unwarranted. Carlye's way or the highway. But I guess the ends justify the means.

Grabovski actually played better with Kessel when they were paired together.
- Yeti1181

the truth hurts the haters!

All these Grabovski die hard fans and yet I can't recall ever seeing a Grabovski jersey being worn by anyone but the player himself...

Who would you have sitting ahead of Liles?? Keep in mind that there are
Cap ramifications.

Go
- faceto27

Rielly for one.

put his ass back in jr.

but yes i know. however they could of played him last season.. and then moved him

there is always a way.

bozak is playing with kessel, isnt' that the ONLY reason bozak is good according to this site? don't see your point
- clark_griswold

Actually WAS spreads the offense around and puts Grabo on the 2nd line. They load it up on the PP by having Grabo up on the top PP unit.

Numbers aren't everything guy, obviously the team didn't feel that Grabovski/Kessel was as stromg as Bozak/Kessel. Kessel is a top 1o point producing forward 2 years in a row, playing with Bozak. Get a clue.
- Mr_Smokey

oh you're right maybe Phil didn't feel all warm and fuzzy inside when he got the points with Grabo as his centre - that's a very good point.

Fact is that Phil is talented enough to make anyone he plays with good and he likes playing with Bozak. There is no magic in that - and I have no problem with it. But lets not make poop up that Phil plays better with Bozak than he does with Grabo because that is flat out false. Try some other tin foil hat angle - that one has been disproven already.