given how raw he is and the fact that he's 23 (not old but certainly starting to get to the age where he should have his poop together as an NHLer), not sure you'll get the return that makes a trade worthwhile.
- scotch_tape

So no Schenn for JVR type deal?

Nurse should be up there too. Clouts was very homerish with Klefbom.....it would've been scary what he would've written about Nurse, but in all honesty they've got the makings of a great top 6 forward group and 2 great pieces on the blueline, guys with top pairing potential in Schultz and Nurse.
- mykokes

all i've been hearing about for 2 years is Klefbom. did he not make the team out of camp?

I thought Gards played well against Ottawa. Sucked against the Habs and had a so so against Philly. 1st three games of the season and everyone is ready to ship him out? How about everyone takes a look at Ranger.
- iTOLDu

The difference being Gardiner has the potential for a large return in a trade, whereas Ranger has a no-trade clause, and wouldn't get you a panzerotti in return.

Grabovski?
- big_dion

Overpaid
No spot for him on the team
Bad attitude
Didn't fit into the cap structure

Gardiner does not fit into these categories.

So no Schenn for JVR type deal?
- mykokes

i love that deal, and i was skepitcal at the time just because JVR didnt seem like he had the WANT to dominate.

i was wrong!

Gardiner is over-rated by Leafs Nation, but that doesn't mean he isn't good.

But I'm all for trading him - if the return is good.

Phanuef, Riley, Franson. We can afford to trade Gardiner for a piece we need more.
- Atomic Wedgie

How can this be true? All I've heard on here, with the exception of the playoffs against Boston is how we should trade him.

So no Schenn for JVR type deal?
- mykokes

i dont see it. as big of a disappointment as Schenn was (though i don't know what people expected him to turn into...), he was still an established top-4 dman at the time of the trade.

well up front they're missing Gagner which kind of throws everything off balance. otherwise it's not too bad. but it's the D and goaltending that should look better at this point. but Nurse and Klefbom should help down the road. goalie, dunno what they're gonna do.
- scotch_tape

Nurse should be up there now imo. I know he's only 18, but he's built like a truck.

i dont see it. as big of a disappointment as Schenn was (though i don't know what people expected him to turn into...), he was still an established top-4 dman at the time of the trade.
- scotch_tape

Schenn was not a top-4 d-man at the time of the trade.

His ice time was way down, and that was on a very weak defensive corps.

Sorry.

i dont see it. as big of a disappointment as Schenn was (though i don't know what people expected him to turn into...), he was still an established top-4 dman at the time of the trade.
- scotch_tape

Actually he was playing 16 minutes a night. 2 seasons of top 4, 2 seasons of being a 5 or 6. Gardiner has one season and one playoff of being a top 4, and one season of being in the minors for a concussion.

i dont see it. as big of a disappointment as Schenn was (though i don't know what people expected him to turn into...), he was still an established top-4 dman at the time of the trade.
- scotch_tape

it was more or less leafs fans thinking he would be more the his ever could be... he's a d first d-man.... doesn't exactly attract the fan fair and hype that was there at the time of his draft and the years to follow.

How can this be true? All I've heard on here, with the exception of the playoffs against Boston is how we should trade him.
- mykokes

It's kind of funny actually...I don't think there is any more critical fans of their own teams then Leaf fans.
Yet every other fan base seems to think Leaf fans over rate their own players.

Myers has the potential to be a #1 dude.. Gardiner is so (frank)in over rated around here it's a joke.
- Mr_Smokey

no.

i dont see it. as big of a disappointment as Schenn was (though i don't know what people expected him to turn into...), he was still an established top-4 dman at the time of the trade.
- scotch_tape

Overpaid
No spot for him on the team
Bad attitude
Didn't fit into the cap structure

Gardiner does not fit into these categories.
- Mr_Smokey

55-60 pts - 5 mil
clarkson will be lucky to hit 40 pts this year. but his 5.5 is ok

no spot = bozak's spot.

we have PK specialists.

bad attitude? when? he only got pissed off when they dumped him the day before his wedding, and guess what, macarthur said the EXACT same poop just 2 nights ago, saying how Carlyle is a poop coach and that he is the man to blame for grabovski's fall.

cap structure, yeah the 5.5 was a lot of coin for a guy that was playing 8 mins a game with kulemin and mac, i agree. best to ship him off. funny he got a hatrick first game

Myers has the potential to be a #1 dude.. Gardiner is so (frank)in over rated around here it's a joke.
- Mr_Smokey

neither is a #1, both are top 4

Actually he was playing 16 minutes a night. 2 seasons of top 4, 2 seasons of being a 5 or 6. Gardiner has one season and one playoff of being a top 4, and one season of being in the minors for a concussion.
- mykokes

riiight that was when Gardiner had a breakout year i guess. weird. oh well Ron Wilson never did like guys who could play D.

Phaneuf, Gardiner and a 2nd for Shea Webber

55-60 pts - 5 mil
clarkson will be lucky to hit 40 pts this year. but his 5.5 is ok

no spot = bozak's spot.

we have PK specialists.

bad attitude? when? he only got pissed off when they dumped him the day before his wedding, and guess what, macarthur said the EXACT same poop just 2 nights ago, saying how Carlyle is a poop coach and that he is the man to blame for grabovski's fall.

cap structure, yeah the 5.5 was a lot of coin for a guy that was playing 8 mins a game with kulemin and mac, i agree. best to ship him off. funny he got a hatrick first game
- big_dion

If we want to trade gardnier its going to be a young top line center in a package.

- faceto27

ok well anyway he stepped into a top 4 role for Philly right away and played well.

riiight that was when Gardiner had a breakout year i guess. weird. oh well Ron Wilson never did like guys who could play D.
- scotch_tape

Ron wilson just didnt like people in general I believe.

that's my point. BOzak fits with the LEAFS. on florida where scoring is non existent, not so much. Unfortunately, ppl on here think offense is all that matters. Grabo over bozak on the leafs roster is laughable if you look past the scoresheets (or even if you did, grabo was a -10 in the playoffs. Now, +/- can be skewed, but man, there's no debating when it's -10 for god's sake)
- clark_griswold

i disagree with on this.

checking line and no offense time can get that -10 over 7 games. if it was for 4 games then you'd have more of an argument.

If we want to trade gardnier its going to be a young top line center in a package.
- Yeti1181

O reilly.

55-60 pts - 5 mil
clarkson will be lucky to hit 40 pts this year. but his 5.5 is ok

no spot = bozak's spot.

we have PK specialists.

bad attitude? when? he only got pissed off when they dumped him the day before his wedding, and guess what, macarthur said the EXACT same poop just 2 nights ago, saying how Carlyle is a poop coach and that he is the man to blame for grabovski's fall.

cap structure, yeah the 5.5 was a lot of coin for a guy that was playing 8 mins a game with kulemin and mac, i agree. best to ship him off. funny he got a hatrick first game
- big_dion

hockey is not all offense. Just look at why washington never goes anywhere in the playoffs. Bozak brings MUCH more to this team than grabo. Not even close. I defend bozak but im the first to admit there are much better 1st line centres for the leafs. Grabo is not one of them

55-60 pts - 5 mil
clarkson will be lucky to hit 40 pts this year. but his 5.5 is ok

no spot = bozak's spot.

we have PK specialists.

bad attitude? when? he only got pissed off when they dumped him the day before his wedding, and guess what, macarthur said the EXACT same poop just 2 nights ago, saying how Carlyle is a poop coach and that he is the man to blame for grabovski's fall.

cap structure, yeah the 5.5 was a lot of coin for a guy that was playing 8 mins a game with kulemin and mac, i agree. best to ship him off. funny he got a hatrick first game
- big_dion

And let me throw in some really weird, "no, you can't actually make that statement" kinda math:

If you had kept Grabovski, it would be like you are paying him around 2 million.

Because you'd be saving $3 million a year by not having Liles count against the cap while playing on the Marlies.