I think they will be jettisoning several players that were untouchable a few months ago if they poop the bed with Berube as the coach.
- Jsaquella

handing this job to Berube after one week & dropping the interim label & if it's true an extension really reeks of disorganization, and desperation.

I can see, (if they look to move players), that being a disaster as well, dealing from a total weakness.

that screams "coach lost the room"
- puckhead17

I think that is part of it.

I also think that the repeated comments about the "horrible" training camp are a shot at the players, not Laviolette. I wouldn't be stunned to see a trade in the next few days to a week, either.

Seems like a bit of an exaggeration, but in any case, what's curious then is what accounts for the differences between the 2011-2012 team and this current team. The 2011-2012 team had no problems scoring. When looking at the personnel, not much has changed since then. I think it would be foolish to claim that Matt Carle and Jagr are the reason the team has regressed since then. Maybe 2011-2012 was a fluke year in terms of offense.
- mcefalu

JVR's gone, Hartnell and Talbot had career seasons, Jagr's and Briere's 50 points each are gone.

We've only brought in one forward, Lecavalier, to offset two regressions and three departures. Voracek's production has increased, but Couturier's regressed.

By my math, we're missing about 100-115 points from that lineup, to now.

handing this job to Berube after one week & dropping the interim label & if it's true an extension really reeks of disorganization, and desperation.

I can see, (if they look to move players), that being a disaster as well, dealing from a total weakness.
- puckhead17

There was never an interim label. I think they wanted to make it clear that Berube was their guy and that was that.

As for looking bad, they realized that Laviolette wasn't going to fix it, and they acted ASAP to get a new voice to do so.

I also think that last season had as much to do with it as the 3 games this year.

I think that is part of it.

I also think that the repeated comments about the "horrible" training camp are a shot at the players, not Laviolette. I wouldn't be stunned to see a trade in the next few days to a week, either.
- Jsaquella

Trading Hartnell and giving Vinny the A would send a pretty strong/appropriate message I think.

I think that is part of it.

I also think that the repeated comments about the "horrible" training camp are a shot at the players, not Laviolette. I wouldn't be stunned to see a trade in the next few days to a week, either.
- Jsaquella

You know what though? He can take a shot at the players all he wants, nobody held a gun to the team and forced them to sign these guys.

I honestly have to stop myself sometimes and wonder why I am suprised. A lot of these guys werent models of consistency before their arrival, and had questionable defensive games to begin with.

Nowhere to go but up I suppose. If they need another season to properly evaluate so be it, but make sure you infuse a culture of consistent hard work and professionalism on and off the ice.

Trading Hartnell and giving Vinny the A would send a pretty strong/appropriate message I think.
- hereticpride

I think a move like that has the potential to create bad blood in the locker room

I think a move like that has the potential to create bad blood in the locker room
- JAKEw1234

If buying out Briere didnt I dont see how that would.

JVR's gone, Hartnell and Talbot had career seasons, Jagr's and Briere's 50 points each are gone.

We've only brought in one forward, Lecavalier, to offset two regressions and three departures. Voracek's production has increased, but Couturier's regressed.

By my math, we're missing about 100-115 points from that lineup, to now.
- AllInForFlyers

That year wasn't the only 30 goal Season Hartnell has had. And your not including any potential for B Schenn and Couturier to improve offensively.

Have to get back to work. Flyers have no excuses now. Time to play.

Alfredsson, Jagr, Iginla and Doan are super productive and worth $5M+/year?

Elias you can make an argument for.

Brind'Amour was making a very modest $3.6M/year and retired with term left on his deal after a really sharp decline.
- Tomahawk

Lecavalier isn't making $5m a year, so why is that the benchmark? You claimed that St Louis was the the only star who remained productive into his late 30s. That's false. Lets look at how these guys did in the age range for which Vinny is contracted to play in Philly.

Alfredsson - 352 points in 350 games (PPG) between 06/07 and 10/11
Brind'Amour - 241 points in 293 games (0.82 PPG) between 03/04 and 07/08
Doan - 192 points in 281 games (0.68 PPG) since turning 33
Elias - 224 points 268 games (0.84 PPG) since turning 33
Iginla - 186 in points in 208 games (0.89 PPG) since turning 33

I think a move like that has the potential to create bad blood in the locker room
- JAKEw1234

Like taking a dump on Gagne and Jagr and Carle to go chasing after Cleary, Parise and Suter, and getting rid of everybody's favorite French Canadian landlord didn't?

I think a move like that has the potential to create bad blood in the locker room
- JAKEw1234

It would also be a panic move with the genesis of it just being for effect. Rather then based on sound hockey reasons. They need to give it some time to see what Berube can do with this team.

You know what though? He can take a shot at the players all he wants, nobody held a gun to the team and forced them to sign these guys.

I honestly have to stop myself sometimes and wonder why I am suprised. A lot of these guys werent models of consistency before their arrival, and had questionable defensive games to begin with.

Nowhere to go but up I suppose. If they need another season to properly evaluate so be it, but make sure you infuse a culture of consistent hard work and professionalism on and off the ice.
- flyer_nutter

By shot at the players, I mean that it's a warning that they have to pick it up, the Laviolette excuse is gone now.

Lecavalier isn't making $5m a year, so why is that the benchmark? You claimed that St Louis was the the only star who remained productive into his late 30s. That's false. Lets look at how these guys did in the age range for which Vinny is contracted to play in Philly.

Alfredsson - 352 points in 350 games (PPG) between 06/07 and 10/11
Brind'Amour - 241 points in 293 games (0.82 PPG) between 03/04 and 07/08
Doan - 192 points in 281 games (0.68 PPG) since turning 33
Elias - 224 points 268 games (0.84 PPG) since turning 33
Iginla - 186 in points in 208 games (0.89 PPG) since turning 33
- Feanor

Vinny's making $6M this year and next.

Two, we're talking about later in the life of the contract, when Vinny's in his late 30's. Alfredsson, Doan, Brindy and Iginla have all nosedived in productivity in their late-30's. That's what I'm talking about.

That year wasn't the only 30 goal Season Hartnell has had. And your not including any potential for B Schenn and Couturier to improve offensively.
- MJL

That wasn't what he asked. He asked what the differences between that year and this year were now, not what projections are for this season.

But since you want to play it that way, here goes:

Just say Brayden Schenn comes in at 50 points, and Sean Couturier comes in at 50 points. Great. That means they've replaced the production that Briere and Jagr gave them. Perfect world scenario.

But who's scoring JVR's 11 goals, Couturer's 13 goals and Brayden Schenn's 12 goals? Who's doing that, MJL? Adam Hall? Zac Rinaldo in more minutes?

Do you think I'm some kind of idiot? Why do you think I keep saying they need another offensive player? They're probably short two of them, but I'm trying to be nice about it!

Berube.. Head coach...

Vinny's making $6M this year and next.

Two, we're talking about later in the life of the contract, when Vinny's in his late 30's. Alfredsson, Doan, Brindy and Iginla have all nosedived in productivity in their late-30's. That's what I'm talking about.
- Tomahawk

How many players don't suffer a nose dive in productivity into their late 30's? What really matters is are those player worth their Cap hit? Because I really don't give a poop how much money they make. As a fan, I care about the Cap hit.

Berube.. Head coach...
- SMS4016

Not sure if he is the right/wrong choice but lets see how it plays out.

That wasn't what he asked. He asked what the differences between that year and this year were now, not what projections are for this season.

But since you want to play it that way, here goes:

Just say Brayden Schenn comes in at 50 points, and Sean Couturier comes in at 50 points. Great. That means they've replaced the production that Briere and Jagr gave them. Perfect world scenario.

But who's scoring JVR's 11 goals, Couturer's 13 goals and Brayden Schenn's 12 goals? Who's doing that, MJL? Adam Hall? Zac Rinaldo in more minutes?

Do you think I'm some kind of idiot? Why do you think I keep saying they need another offensive player? They're probably short two of them, but I'm trying to be nice about it!
- AllInForFlyers

I think you drastically overlook and underestimate how much offensive talent this team has. And aren't aware of how much offensive talent the Flyers have on the forward line compared to the rest of the League.

The Flyers don't have a forward that would be considered a true sniper. But they're one of the deeper offensive teams in the League talent wise as far as forwards go.

And if Schenn and Couturier come in at 50 pts each, they have oodles of offense if the other players play up to their potential.

It's pretty clear why the Flyers have had trouble scoring. And it's not because they lack offensive talent.

My gut tells me Berube will be surprisingly effective as head coach.

Berube.. Head coach...
- SMS4016

Could be worse. They could have hired Murray. Can't believe his talents are being wasted in Adirondack.

Vinny's making $6M this year and next.

Two, we're talking about later in the life of the contract, when Vinny's in his late 30's. Alfredsson, Doan, Brindy and Iginla have all nosedived in productivity in their late-30's. That's what I'm talking about.
- Tomahawk

His current salary is irrelevant to everyone but him at the moment. His cap hit is what matters, unless they want to trade him in the last years of his deal in which case the fact his salary is lower than his cap hit then will be an advantage for the Flyers.

Alfredsson put up 79 points in the season during which he turned 37. Brind'Amour scored 51 points as a 38 year old. If that's the kind of productivity nosedive Vinny is going to be experience this will be a great contract for the Flyers.

More stats: Datysuk is at a PPG since turning 33, and St Louis scored 407 points in 371 games in five seasons since turning 33.

By shot at the players, I mean that it's a warning that they have to pick it up, the Laviolette excuse is gone now.
- Jsaquella

this is the same as when they fired Hitch & hired Stevens

same message

His current salary is irrelevant to everyone but him at the moment. His cap hit is what matters, unless they want to trade him in the last years of his deal in which case the fact his salary is lower than his cap hit then will be an advantage for the Flyers.

Alfredsson put up 79 points in the season during which he turned 37. Brind'Amour scored 51 points as a 38 year old. If that's the kind of productivity nosedive Vinny is going to be experience this will be a great contract for the Flyers.
- Feanor

I have zero worries about the Lecavalier deal. I think it was a great addition.