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Forums :: Blog World :: Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: Flyers Fall to 0-3-0; Laughton Continues OHL Domination
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MBFlyerfan
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Be nice from now on, NJ
Joined: 03.17.2006

Oct 7 @ 1:33 PM ET
Can't label them busts yet, I agree. But if Thornton is the comparison for schenn, I'm confident Schenn will be a bust.
- Flyersgod


If Schenn becomes a steady 25g 35a player then I will be happy. I doubt he will be any more than that.
mcefalu
Location: I never back-read, IL
Joined: 07.11.2008

Oct 7 @ 1:33 PM ET
Anybody who knows how to think offense and make a play will help -- what is happening with this team is that the third and fourth lines can't sustain or generate any offense at all.

You can't wear down a team when all you do is dump the puck in -- if you ever had it to begin with -- and try to hit someone when the puck is going the other way.

- AllInForFlyers


And that's where I think the lack of hustle comes in. We all keep seeing the forchecking much too late that by the time the hits come the puck is already transitioning the other way. You can't forecheck effectively if you're coasting into the opponents zone
jmatchett383
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Newark, DE
Joined: 03.09.2010

Oct 7 @ 1:34 PM ET
If Schenn becomes a steady 25g 35a player then I will be happy. I doubt he will be any more than that.
- MBFlyerfan


I agree, 25/35/60 would be fine. Those are my personal top expectations for him at this point.
Flyersgod
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 01.07.2013

Oct 7 @ 1:34 PM ET
I think elite gets thrown out there way too much. there aren't that many "elite" players. there are stars, great players, etc but to me elite goes beyond that
- nastyflyergirl


Fait enough. We all rate players differently. Nothing wromg with that.

I'm very tough on players. Always have been.
isaiah520
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: "All train compartments smell vaguely of sh*t. It gets so you don't mind it"
Joined: 12.26.2006

Oct 7 @ 1:35 PM ET
we need more players like #36
- vejim

one's enuf...you think we can't score now...
JoeyG1951
Location: Campbell River, BC
Joined: 05.23.2010

Oct 7 @ 1:35 PM ET
I wonder what the lines will look like.. please take Hartnell off of Giroux's line. I think he holds Giroux back
- mikel33


I would like to see Giroux centering Schenn and Voracek for starters. Hartnell can be dropped to the second or third line until he wakes up. The second line could be Lecavalier centering Hartnell and Simmonds, lot of grit there. Couter between Read and Rinaldo is worth a try. Talbot is the not the old Talbot and can anchor the 4th line.
Also Couturier could break out if give a chance to play in a top six even if it is at wing.
Maybe a trade is in order as well as we have four natural centers that could be top six, Giroux, Vinny, Schenn and Couturier. These top players need good players with them to develop. Couter will alway be a 3rd line center unless he gets a chance to play with talent equivalent to his. Lots of questions, hope Berube can fill in the blanks.
Scoob
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: love is love
Joined: 06.29.2006

Oct 7 @ 1:35 PM ET
I suspect that they didn't want to hire a lame duck coach as the players would see him as having no authority.
- Hextall271


Every coach is "interim." He's just keeping the seat warm for the next guy.
Feanor
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: DE
Joined: 02.13.2013

Oct 7 @ 1:37 PM ET
and how is that even possible


giroux's postgame last night certainly left me wanting.

- -davies-


He can't tell the truth, so of course his answers are going to be unsatisfactory.
Jsaquella
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Bringing Hexy Back
Joined: 06.16.2006

Oct 7 @ 1:37 PM ET
it was several years ago. brief stint. and he's a former flyer, enforcer to boot - that's why people would question it.
- hammarby31


Berube coached a full season, went 46-27-4 and finished second in his division.
Hextall271
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Hart-Land, NB
Joined: 01.18.2007

Oct 7 @ 1:38 PM ET
Kevin Weekes (former NHL goaltender)from CBC on tim and sid SN 360 talking about the Lavy firing.

He says it's only 3 games, but he thought this was going to happen mid last year. He sees that the team didn't commit to playing effectively without the puck.. It's not goaltending at all. D leads to good O, . What we've all been saying so far.
MJL
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Candyland, PA
Joined: 09.20.2007

Oct 7 @ 1:38 PM ET
He was compared to Joe Thorton by Central Scouting and that was before he tore the roof off of it in the World Juniors.

Of course if you can only allow yourself to see four elite players in the NHL and they're all forwards then I guess you've limited your perspective.

- mayorofangrytown



The players I listed were done so as an example of elite players. It was not given as an all encompassing list of all the elite players in the NHL. Seemed as though that was pretty obvious.
I don't see B Schenn as having the playmaking and passing ability that Joe Thornton has.
Flyersgod
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 01.07.2013

Oct 7 @ 1:38 PM ET
If Schenn becomes a steady 25g 35a player then I will be happy. I doubt he will be any more than that.
- MBFlyerfan


If that's it, I take the gamble and trade him. We are overloaded and center and he hasn't been effective as a winger.
mikel33
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: United States, NJ
Joined: 08.09.2007

Oct 7 @ 1:39 PM ET
I would like to see Giroux centering Schenn and Voracek for starters. Hartnell can be dropped to the second or third line until he wakes up. The second line could be Lecavalier centering Hartnell and Simmonds, lot of grit there. Couter between Read and Rinaldo is worth a try. Talbot is the not the old Talbot and can anchor the 4th line.
Also Couturier could break out if give a chance to play in a top six even if it is at wing.
Maybe a trade is in order as well as we have four natural centers that could be top six, Giroux, Vinny, Schenn and Couturier. These top players need good players with them to develop. Couter will alway be a 3rd line center unless he gets a chance to play with talent equivalent to his. Lots of questions, hope Berube can fill in the blanks.

- flyerdude17


I honestly don't think Hartnell's game is about waking up.. I never thought he had a lot to his game, in fact I think Simmonds is about what they were looking for in Hartnell.
AllInForFlyers
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Call Me Sweetcheeks
Joined: 03.18.2013

Oct 7 @ 1:39 PM ET
one's enuf...you think we can't score now...
- isaiah520


Do people realize that Zac Rinaldo has never scored more than three goals as a professional hockey player?

That's THREE. THREE!

And we're talking about playing him with Sean Couturier on the third line? Giving him more minutes?

NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO.

Stop saying it! Playing Zac Rinaldo more minutes is part of the problem!
nastyflyergirl
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: this space for rent, PA
Joined: 09.19.2006

Oct 7 @ 1:40 PM ET
If Schenn becomes a steady 25g 35a player then I will be happy. I doubt he will be any more than that.
- MBFlyerfan



I would be VERY happy with that
MJL
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Candyland, PA
Joined: 09.20.2007

Oct 7 @ 1:40 PM ET
Tomahawk, I'm not sure the average person truly understands how much they need that winger. I really don't.

They need that winger desperately.

- AllInForFlyers



Sure they could use a decent 3rd line Winger. But that player isn't going to turn this around. What they need more then adding any additional personell is for the current players to compete as a team.
jmatchett383
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Newark, DE
Joined: 03.09.2010

Oct 7 @ 1:41 PM ET
The players I listed were done so as an example of elite players. It was not given as an all encompassing list of all the elite players in the NHL. Seemed as though that was pretty obvious.
I don't see B Schenn as having the playmaking and passing ability that Joe Thornton has.

- MJL


My only point was that he was projected to be a player like Joe Thornton, one of the best playmakers in the game, and a player I would consider elite. To me, that is expected to be more than a "good player."
funmaster18
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: All I need are some tasty waves, a cool buzz and I'm fine.
Joined: 03.15.2009

Oct 7 @ 1:42 PM ET
Do people realize that Zac Rinaldo has never scored more than three goals as a professional hockey player?

That's THREE. THREE!

And we're talking about playing him with Sean Couturier on the third line? Giving him more minutes?

NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO.

Stop saying it! Playing Zac Rinaldo more minutes is part of the problem!

- AllInForFlyers


I wouldn't mind seeing talbot, hall, and Rinaldo together on the 4th line
Jsaquella
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Bringing Hexy Back
Joined: 06.16.2006

Oct 7 @ 1:43 PM ET
I wouldn't mind seeing talbot, hall, and Rinaldo together on the 4th line
- funmaster18


That would be an ideal 4th line.
MJL
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Candyland, PA
Joined: 09.20.2007

Oct 7 @ 1:43 PM ET
Man, you really do love to defend Mark Streit. You've been singing his praises since the day he was signed and refuse to assign him blame while applauding every single little thing he does right. I'm not gonna beat on him because the team's been pretty awful so far, but he's been pretty bad defensively, and he's done little to offset his defensive shortcomings.
- jmatchett383



That's clearly incorrect. I stated in a number of posts that he was knocked off the puck on the Bolland goal. I didn't absolve him of any blame. I absolved him of the sole blame on the play. That was clear. And I disagree that he's been pretty awful defensively. I think he's been better then advertised defensively. And I think the obvious puck skills he's shown thus far, will really help the Flyers out once they fix their overall team game.
PhillaBully
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Joined: 07.20.2010

Oct 7 @ 1:43 PM ET
So anyone who doesn't play at 18 isn't elite? Like #4 overall Pietrangelo, for example?
- jmatchett383


No but the discussion was that Schenn was considered "elite" before he even got to the NHL. If schenn were considered to be a elite player he would have started in the nhl right away.
-davies-
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: A medical emergency involving you.
Joined: 08.05.2013

Oct 7 @ 1:43 PM ET
He can't tell the truth, so of course his answers are going to be unsatisfactory.
- Feanor



it wasn't just the words it was the delivery.
justahockeyguy2
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: DE
Joined: 06.05.2013

Oct 7 @ 1:44 PM ET
Kevin Weekes (former NHL goaltender)from CBC on tim and sid SN 360 talking about the Lavy firing.

He says it's only 3 games, but he thought this was going to happen mid last year. He sees that the team didn't commit to playing effectively without the puck.. It's not goaltending at all. D leads to good O, . What we've all been saying so far.

- Hextall271



And there you have it!
AllInForFlyers
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Call Me Sweetcheeks
Joined: 03.18.2013

Oct 7 @ 1:44 PM ET
Sure they could use a decent 3rd line Winger. But that player isn't going to turn this around. What they need more then adding any additional personell is for the current players to compete as a team.
- MJL


Don't try to feed me that garbage about "competing as a team" like I just started watching hockey, MJL -- they gave up two goals yesterday. They gave up two to Toronto before that extremely late PP goal.

They've been playing hard. They've been trying to win hockey games.

They can't score. So don't try to tell me that bringing in another guy who can score is worse than playing Zac Rinaldo more minutes, because he "competes hard."
Feanor
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: DE
Joined: 02.13.2013

Oct 7 @ 1:44 PM ET
He was compared to Joe Thorton by Central Scouting and that was before he tore the roof off of it in the World Juniors.

Of course if you can only allow yourself to see four elite players in the NHL and they're all forwards then I guess you've limited your perspective.

- mayorofangrytown


Did they expect him to grow 4 inches and add 40 pounds in his late teens?
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