I agree, you (frank)ing candy striper.
- gravyface

Whoa, whoa, whoa. I'm on your side man.

Special teams don't matter. Only 5 on 5. It's okay to lose a game if you play well 5 on 5. I hope we lose Tuesday but score four 5on5 goals. That would make me feel great and be happy with my teams performance.
- systemtool

I was always surprised and annoyed when Toronto would outplay their opponents and outshoot them yet always lose during the Raycroft and Toskala era. I really shouldn't have been surprised though.

Now Toronto plays a poorer possession game but they're getting better goaltending and have a solid PK and they win games. Interesting how that works.

edit: they were a top 10 CF% team in 07-08 with Raycroft. Top 8 in FF%.

I was always surprised and annoyed when Toronto would outplay their opponents and outshoot them yet always lose during the Raycroft and Toskala era. I really shouldn't have been surprised though.

Now Toronto plays a poorer possession game but they're getting better goaltending and have a solid PK and they win games. Interesting how that works.
- daeth

The problem with Toronto and possession stats is that they don't play they style/system. They are a dump and chase forcheck team. They are a transition team who also feeds off turnovers in the neutral zone. You rarely see players on the Leafs have the puck on their sticks for long. They are quick to dump, pass or shoot the puck. It's their style and game plan, but people misconstrue them to point out flaws in the Leafs game when in reality it's what makes them so successful. Holding onto a puck for long is a great way to turn it over...

One issue I do have with how the team plays, Carlyle, is that they sit back and defend leads instead of keeping the attack going, which results in too much time in our zone and the other team having possession of the puck.

It's hard to disagree with your analysis, though I don't think there's any reason to believe that puck possession leads to turning the puck over.

Toronto's winning % was .870 when leading after two periods last year too so while it scares the poop out of me (and cost them the Boston series) when they sit back like they do I won't really complain about it until it consistently stops working.

One issue I do have with how the team plays, Carlyle, is that they sit back and defend leads instead of keeping the attack going, which results in too much time in our zone and the other team having possession of the puck.
- systemtool

Score effects hockey.

Score effects hockey.
- Talkshowhost

Does anyone keep a Corsi or Fenwick stat when trailing or leading?

I know there's Corsi close, etc but that's not the same really.

I was always surprised and annoyed when Toronto would outplay their opponents and outshoot them yet always lose during the Raycroft and Toskala era. I really shouldn't have been surprised though.

Now Toronto plays a poorer possession game but they're getting better goaltending and have a solid PK and they win games. Interesting how that works.

edit: they were a top 10 CF% team in 07-08 with Raycroft. Top 8 in FF%.
- daeth

Proof positive that it's highly overrated.


Leafs are lucky because they shoot the puck and score!

Does anyone keep a Corsi or Fenwick stat when trailing or leading?

I know there's Corsi close, etc but that's not the same really.
- daeth

yes, there is Fenwick Close.

Proof positive that it's highly overrated.


Leafs are lucky because they shoot the puck and score!
- burn

Had they had decent goaltending I think they would've been a playoff team though.

At least that is what I said at the time lol.

The problem with Toronto and possession stats is that they don't play they style/system. They are a dump and chase forcheck team. They are a transition team who also feeds off turnovers in the neutral zone. You rarely see players on the Leafs have the puck on their sticks for long. They are quick to dump, pass or shoot the puck. It's their style and game plan, but people misconstrue them to point out flaws in the Leafs game when in reality it's what makes them so successful. Holding onto a puck for long is a great way to turn it over...

One issue I do have with how the team plays, Carlyle, is that they sit back and defend leads instead of keeping the attack going, which results in too much time in our zone and the other team having possession of the puck.
- systemtool

agreed.

James Mirtle ‏@mirtle now
Leafs GM Dave Nonis had health scare during the game last night and was taken to hospital as precaution. He's expected to be released today.


Sportsnet ‏@Sportsnet 25s
#MapleLeafs GM Dave Nonis was taken to hospital during Saturday night's game. More details here: http://ow.ly/pxKX9
Retweeted by Greg Brady
View summary Reply Retweet Favorite More
Chris Johnston ‏@reporterchris 15s
Dave Nonis was taken to hospital during last night's #leafs home opener. Story up now: http://www.sportsnet.ca/h...-nonis-taken-to-hospital/ …
View summary
James Mirtle ‏@mirtle 2m
Not a ton of details on Nonis. Was feeling "unwell" in press box during second period, was assessed by doctors and was in hospital overnight
Expand

This site is really cool.

If anyone is interested is seeing the advanced stats from last night:
http://www.extraskater.co...0-05-senators-maple-leafs

it even keeps track of the type of shot and the distance for all Corsi events.

Score effects hockey.
- Talkshowhost

Thanks tips.

James Mirtle ‏@mirtle now
Leafs GM Dave Nonis had health scare during the game last night and was taken to hospital as precaution. He's expected to be released today.


Sportsnet ‏@Sportsnet 25s
#MapleLeafs GM Dave Nonis was taken to hospital during Saturday night's game. More details here: http://ow.ly/pxKX9
Retweeted by Greg Brady
View summary Reply Retweet Favorite More
Chris Johnston ‏@reporterchris 15s
Dave Nonis was taken to hospital during last night's #leafs home opener. Story up now: http://www.sportsnet.ca/h...-nonis-taken-to-hospital/ …
View summary
James Mirtle ‏@mirtle 2m
Not a ton of details on Nonis. Was feeling "unwell" in press box during second period, was assessed by doctors and was in hospital overnight
Expand
- burn

Hopefully just a panic attack from all the sloppy play.

I would ve explained it to you too
- Yeti1181

What the (frank) is the internet?

Thanks tips.
- systemtool

What the (frank) is the internet?
- Dozzer

(frank) if I know.

James Mirtle ‏@mirtle now
Leafs GM Dave Nonis had health scare during the game last night and was taken to hospital as precaution. He's expected to be released today.


Sportsnet ‏@Sportsnet 25s
#MapleLeafs GM Dave Nonis was taken to hospital during Saturday night's game. More details here: http://ow.ly/pxKX9
Retweeted by Greg Brady
View summary Reply Retweet Favorite More
Chris Johnston ‏@reporterchris 15s
Dave Nonis was taken to hospital during last night's #leafs home opener. Story up now: http://www.sportsnet.ca/h...-nonis-taken-to-hospital/ …
View summary
James Mirtle ‏@mirtle 2m
Not a ton of details on Nonis. Was feeling "unwell" in press box during second period, was assessed by doctors and was in hospital overnight
Expand
- burn

So Brian Burke poisoned him eh?


Must be how he pulls some of these trades. Get the other GM sick and phone them while they are weak and delirious.

This site is really cool.

If anyone is interested is seeing the advanced stats from last night:
http://www.extraskater.co...0-05-senators-maple-leafs

it even keeps track of the type of shot and the distance for all Corsi events.
- Talkshowhost

Just from that specific game it's easy to see the flaw in advanced stats. Franson was an abomination yet breaks even in CF% and FF%. Phaneuf was excellent yet has a CF% and FF% under 40%.

http://blogs.thescore.com...-still-gets-things-right/

Just from that specific game it's easy to see the flaw in advanced stats. Franson was an abomination yet breaks even in CF% and FF%. Phaneuf was excellent yet has a CF% and FF% under 40%.
- daeth

Stop watching the games and rely on corson fenway....... you're eyes are wrong.

The link above is pretty good.

Just from that specific game it's easy to see the flaw in advanced stats. Franson was an abomination yet breaks even in CF% and FF%. Phaneuf was excellent yet has a CF% and FF% under 40%.
- daeth

Phaneuf saw tougher mintues, likely.

Stop watching the games and rely on corson fenway....... you're eyes are wrong.

The link above is pretty good.
- burn

It is, this quote sums up what I like about it though.

There simply aren’t enough actual goals scored to create a large enough sample size to analyse. Fortunately, shots end up correlating nicely with goals over time. Fenwick correlates incredibly closely to scoring chances, but this isn’t because shooting the puck a lot is the same as creating a scoring chance. It’s just that the same processes that aim to produce shot quality will also produce shot quantity.

it's all useful, IMO. Not perfect by a long shot, but's certainly not irrelevent.

Phaneuf saw tougher mintues, likely.
- Talkshowhost

Likely??? Yeah the guy that sees the 2nd toughest opposition in the league "likely" saw the tougher mins last night.....

Likely??? Yeah the guy that sees the 2nd toughest opposition in the league "likely" saw the tougher mins last night.....
- burn

Haha I was in the process of checking. I assumed it was a safe bet.