Just because there was an issue last year, doesnt mean they will have the same issue this year. Tell me what their ES totals were 2 seasons ago. Maybe last year was just a fluke because of short season, injuries and missing a puck moving defender.... hmmm...
- youarewrong

For the record: They were seventh in 5v5 goal ratio two years ago. I don't want anyone to think I duck questions like that.

However, the flip side goes something like that: That stat emphasizes how important even-strength scoring is -- they were a 106-point team two years ago.

I can do the math/analysis, compare the players who were on the team last year and the year before, and likely find the biggest culprits in the drop-off, but we all know who didn't produce last year.

Statistical analysis would likely give you a better idea of who the outliers were -- Maxime Talbot's 19 goals, for example -- but at the same time, some players would progress, some would regress, some would stay the same if they are in their prime years.

For example, Maxime Talbot's regression could easily be offset by a breakout season from, say...Brayden Schenn. That sort of stuff.

i agree with whoever was discussing crashing the net

they needed that in the third and it seemed very obvious to me

drives me crazy

damn close the past two full seasons...
- isaiah520

That's true. I'm just not too worried about goal scoring with Vinny, Simmonds, Read, bounce-back season from Hartnell. All are more than capable of scoring 25+ goals. There's no guarantee that they will but I don't see it being an issue.

And what are those facts? This team does not have a goal scorer on the level of Stamkos, or Ovechkin. But it has plenty of offensive talent, that rivals the majority of the teams in the League. and if neccessary, I can provide those facts for you. TB had Stamkos, and also Martin St. Louis. Two of the top scorers in the entire League. They missed the playoffs.

How many teams in the last 3 years had more then 2 30 goal scorers in a Season? Let's look at the facts.
- MJL

as AllIn posted:

If the Flyers have "more than enough offensive talent," then by all means, answer this question: What did 13 of the top 16 highest-scoring teams in the NHL at even strength have in common last season?

I'll answer that one for you: Those 13 teams all made the playoffs.

For the record: They were seventh in 5v5 goal ratio two years ago. I don't want anyone to think I duck questions like that.

However, the flip side goes something like that: That stat emphasizes how important even-strength scoring is -- they were a 106-point team two years ago.

I can do the math/analysis, compare the players who were on the team last year and the year before, and likely find the biggest culprits in the drop-off, but we all know who didn't produce last year.

Statistical analysis would likely give you a better idea of who the outliers were -- Maxime Talbot's 19 goals, for example -- but at the same time, some players would progress, some would regress, some would stay the same if they are in their prime years.

For example, Maxime Talbot's regression could easily be offset by a breakout season from, say...Brayden Schenn. That sort of stuff.
- AllInForFlyers

I have been on his ass for a while.

Just what kind of player is he? Where does he excel?

For the record: They were seventh in 5v5 goal ratio two years ago. I don't want anyone to think I duck questions like that.

However, the flip side goes something like that: That stat emphasizes how important even-strength scoring is -- they were a 106-point team two years ago.

I can do the math/analysis, compare the players who were on the team last year and the year before, and likely find the biggest culprits in the drop-off, but we all know who didn't produce last year.

Statistical analysis would likely give you a better idea of who the outliers were -- Maxime Talbot's 19 goals, for example -- but at the same time, some players would progress, some would regress, some would stay the same if they are in their prime years.

For example, Maxime Talbot's regression could easily be offset by a breakout season from, say...Brayden Schenn. That sort of stuff.
- AllInForFlyers

Right now, they have the same amount of 5v5 goal goals as Vancouver and NYR, two teams consider by most as perennial contenders.

ONE GAME. AllInForFlyers, I'm not bashing you. Just letting everyone else know; it's ONE GAME. Please for the love of God stop trying to trade the team away.

I have been on his ass for a while.

Just what kind of player is he? Where does he excel?
- flyer_nutter

At the WJC?

Right now, they have the same amount of 5v5 goal goals as Vancouver and NYR, two teams consider by most as perennial contenders.

ONE GAME. AllInForFlyers, I'm not bashing you. Just letting everyone else know; it's ONE GAME. Please for the love of God stop trying to trade the team away.
- jmatchett383

Hell my assault is only on Holmgren/Snider mainly.

I have been on his ass for a while.

Just what kind of player is he? Where does he excel?
- flyer_nutter

He's an interesting player for sure. The guy will probably never score 100 points, but he's the kind of player projected to do a lot of different things pretty well. I think labeling him as a two-way player is probably most accurate, although he can certainly improve his defensive game. Once he fully develops I think we can expect 60-75 points from him if he gets enough playing time to do it. The guy's never had a full season to try and produce so let's hope he stays healthy.

Right now, they have the same amount of 5v5 goal goals as Vancouver and NYR, two teams consider by most as perennial contenders.

ONE GAME. AllInForFlyers, I'm not bashing you. Just letting everyone else know; it's ONE GAME. Please for the love of God stop trying to trade the team away.
- jmatchett383

And again, I said earlier that I, too, want this group of players to score and win. I would rather not see this group broken up.

But hoping for the best doesn't mean that anyone has to be surprised if the worst happens.

He's an interesting player for sure. The guy will probably never score 100 points, but he's the kind of player projected to do a lot of different things pretty well. I think labeling him as a two-way player is probably most accurate, although he can certainly improve his defensive game. Once he fully develops I think we can expect 60-75 points from him if he gets enough playing time to do it. The guy's never had a full season to try and produce so let's hope he stays healthy.
- mcefalu

I think my issue with Brayden Schenn is that he tries to play like Mike Richards, but ends up playing like...not Mike Richards. Same type of body, plays very aggressively, is very physical for his size. He doesn't have Richards' defensive/PK abilities, but still tries to be a solid 2-way forward. I'm not sure what the solution is, but I'd like him to maybe tone they physical edge down, stop trying to fight people (has he ever won? I only remember 3 and he lost them all), and just worry about playing within himself.

I think my issue with Brayden Schenn is that he tries to play like Mike Richards, but ends up playing like...not Mike Richards. Same type of body, plays very aggressively, is very physical for his size. He doesn't have Richards' defensive/PK abilities, but still tries to be a solid 2-way forward. I'm not sure what the solution is, but I'd like him to maybe tone they physical edge down, stop trying to fight people (has he ever won? I only remember 3 and he lost them all), and just worry about playing within himself.
- jmatchett383

I sooo read that last line incorrectly. Speed reading can be fun sometimes!

And again, I said earlier that I, too, want this group of players to score and win. I would rather not see this group broken up.

But hoping for the best doesn't mean that anyone has to be surprised if the worst happens.
- AllInForFlyers

Well, let's explore that again after 6-8 games after we trade Recchi (Voracek) for Gilbert Dionne (Joel Armia), Eric Desjardins (Tyler Myers), and John LeClair (Cody McCormick) and reacquire Ron Hextall (Robert Esche).

I think my issue with Brayden Schenn is that he tries to play like Mike Richards, but ends up playing like...not Mike Richards. Same type of body, plays very aggressively, is very physical for his size. He doesn't have Richards' defensive/PK abilities, but still tries to be a solid 2-way forward. I'm not sure what the solution is, but I'd like him to maybe tone they physical edge down, stop trying to fight people (has he ever won? I only remember 3 and he lost them all), and just worry about playing within himself.
- jmatchett383

That's valid and I think part of that might be his development. I think there is a lot of pressure on Schenn to produce and if the goals aren't coming, maybe he panics and tries to contribute in SOME way, whether that be a fight or a big hit. He's got the skill, he just needs to be patient and I think the points will start to come.

And again, I said earlier that I, too, want this group of players to score and win. I would rather not see this group broken up.

But hoping for the best doesn't mean that anyone has to be surprised if the worst happens.
- AllInForFlyers

they have ~ 6 plyrs who should hit 20+ goals, excluding schenn, who i believe will fall short and couts, who's prob good for 10-15. they have to improve at ES.

I sooo read that last line incorrectly. Speed reading can be fun sometimes!
- FlyersGrace

Grace, may your mind never leave the lonely gutter in which it resides.

they have ~ 6 plyrs who should hit 20+ goals, excluding schenn, who i believe will fall short and couts, who's prob good for 10-15. they have to improve at ES.
- isaiah520

We're talking about the Flyers, not the Blues.

Grace, may your mind never leave the lonely gutter in which it resides.
- jmatchett383

Who said I was lonely?

You obviously visit often, and I KNOW MOAT is in the basement below my sewer...

EDIT: And your post made me think of Hallmark cards. Cuz that's the kind of card I'd want...

Well, let's explore that again after 6-8 games after we trade Recchi (Voracek) for Gilbert Dionne (Joel Armia), Eric Desjardins (Tyler Myers), and John LeClair (Cody McCormick) and reacquire Ron Hextall (Robert Esche).
- jmatchett383

Ha! See...that was a prime example of a "mix-changer!" Montreal was sour about that until 2008 -- that trade indirectly got Patrick Roy traded to Colorado, after the Legion of Doom chased him from the net!

let's try to keep it PG in here...

they have ~ 6 plyrs who should hit 20+ goals, excluding schenn, who i believe will fall short and couts, who's prob good for 10-15. they have to improve at ES.
- isaiah520

They have to, otherwise...well, if they don't, we all know what's coming.

That's valid and I think part of that might be his development. I think there is a lot of pressure on Schenn to produce and if the goals aren't coming, maybe he panics and tries to contribute in SOME way, whether that be a fight or a big hit. He's got the skill, he just needs to be patient and I think the points will start to come.
- mcefalu

we are not in a position to just stick him at #2 center and allow for him to improve. we go out and get vinny and schenn has to be a winger and there certainly is an adjustment period. season 3 was the breakout yr for richards, but the pressure on schenn is greater now than it was for MR in '08. i still think we will see vinny on G's line w/ jake at times, w/ schenn moving in the middle. i could also see a scenario where BS is moved for a scoring winger if ES scoring is a struggle.

On a positive note, the Rangers and Devils looked pretty bad last night in terms of defensive play, which is interesting based on the fact that that is supposed to be a significant strength for both clubs.

I'm not convinced the Rangers will be as good as everyone says they will be this year. Hope I'm right.

let's try to keep it PG in here...
- Crimsoninja

*looks contrite*
I'll do my best.

as AllIn posted:

If the Flyers have "more than enough offensive talent," then by all means, answer this question: What did 13 of the top 16 highest-scoring teams in the NHL at even strength have in common last season?

I'll answer that one for you: Those 13 teams all made the playoffs.
- isaiah520

Point out where I disuputed that fact? Or disputed that the Flyers have had problems scoring at ES? I disagree with him on why they have that issue. And I posted in detail, why I think they have that issue. And what they need to do to correct it.