I'll tell you what the point is again! And this will be the last time I discuss it with you, because you're obviously unwilling to look at it objectively and see the other side of the argument. I've stated multiple times, even saying on the other thread, that I won't tell you that the arguments you make are wrong.

So for the last time, I'll make my point. To be blunt, the fact that you're bringing up player like Kaleta, shows that you don't understand my point, or are just unwilling to see it. Or in my opinion, the point of why the Flyers want an enforcer on the roster, and sometimes in the lineup.
Hockey is a physical game. There are players such as Kaleta, who are aggressive physically, and skate around looking in inflict body checks to create energy and separation from the puck. We have a similar player in Rinaldo on the Flyers. It is part of the game. You don't have an enforcer in the lineup to stop the game of Hockey from being played! That is the disconnect.
The player that is being protected, isn't the player that is being run by a player like Kaleta. That is not my idea of why you play an enforcer, or why I think the Flyers play an enforcer. You play an enforcer, simply to counter the other team's enforcer. If it's just a player like Kaleta, then players like Simmonds, Hartnell, and Rinaldo can get in his face. It's the Colton Orr's that you have to worry about. And the players that you are protecting, by playing Rosehill to counter Orr, is Simmonds, Rinaldo, and Hartnell. So they don't feel the need to have to stand up to him. The so called goon that you state is only in the League because he can fight. Who do you want tangling with him? Your top players or your own goon who is only in the League because he can fight, that is expendable?
Which player do you want having to mess with a Colton Orr, those 3 players or the expendable Rosehill? Who do you want to risk falling on their face like Parros did in a fight with a much bigger and strong Orr. Simmonds and Hartnell,or Rosehill? The answer is obvious. Most nights, nothing will happen. That's why a guy like Rosehill shouldn't play a lot. But heaven forbid the Flyers waste a roster spot or a 4th line spot for a game to make sure other players don't get hurt! And if the opposition doesn't have an enforcer, then Rosehill sits. And Laugton or another player in in the lineup. I think it's ridiculous that this brings so much ire. It's a simple part of the game. You may not like or want it eliminated, which I agree with. But it still is part of the game sometimes. And don't give me that turtle and skate away crap, and take the PP. Because that's not going to happen all the time. Players are only going to put up with so much before they feel a need to respond.
Why do you think Montreal felt the need to sign Parros? Because Prust was getting into too many fights. Now I don't necessarily agree with that, because chances are they're not going to fight the same people. But that's why they did it.
Now you may not agree with it, or feel that they should go in a different direction with that roster spot. But don't tell me the point of view I have here isn't reasonable. Because it is. And there are NHL teams, including the Flyers, that have the same viewpoint in my opinion. And it's valid.
- MJL

I'm looking at it objectively, and it makes zero logic.

There's plenty of cases in all sports of teams and GMs doing illogical things, either for the sake of tradition or some other sort of rationale. That however, doesn't make it logical or reasonable.

I understand the point people make when they say that teams need enforcers, but the issue is the logic behind the point.

You can use theories all you want. The numbers clearly show that goons rarely fight skilled players. Look at www.hockeyfights.com . The goons have few if any fights against guys like Simmonds, Hartnell or Lucic.

Ten, fifteen, twenty years ago, having a guy whose main job was to fight was needed. In today's game, they are irrelevant. That's my point. There's no compelling argument to employing one. Team toughness trumps having a goon.

Only 1 more hour....

I really hope Rosehill scores tonight just (frank)ing because
- Giroux_Is_God

I'm feeling a goal and a fight from Rosebud ... maybe an assist, too, for the GHHT.


and I'm not joking ... I have the inkling he's netting one tonight.

Great news! I'll be joining you all for the game. Feel free to message me if you have any question.
- WayneZ

whats your favorite color?

Great news! I'll be joining you all for the game. Feel free to message me if you have any question.
- WayneZ

Is there any debris on I-264?

Can it be?

Is it true?


R.I.P. Doop
- hereticpride

Doop's gone? Maybe it'll be Song 2 by Blur again lol

Im sick and twisted that way too. Hope he gets the game winner. Its why I was such a Carcillo fan, I love the crazy players. Now Rosehill has not shown that kind of insanity yet, but Im hoping.

Nutter is weird, I was always a fan of:
-Downie
-Boulerice
-Gauthier
-Carcillo
-Rinaldo
- flyer_nutter

Rinaldo is in my top 5 Flyers. All those other guys were brainless. And I hate that poop.

Downie was brainless on the Flyers...not so much anymore.

Is there any debris on I-264?
- Jsaquella

It's getting bad. The federal agency responsible for cleaning debris has not reported to work for some unknown reason.

whats your favorite color?
- funmaster18

I like the teal color used in the legendary Islander's Gordon Fisherman jerseys.

We don't disagree. You're talking about the reality of the games today. I see your point and don't have an argument with it directly. I'd just like to see it gone and think getting rid of Orr and Rosehill is the way to go.

If Orr is dressing I could easily form an argument for and against dressing Rosehill. I'm just tired of the "goon" and I'm ready to see them legislated out of the game tomorrow.
- mayorofangrytown

I agree 100%. And I think a lot of teams are trying to do that. And I applaud them for it. I agree with those that state that a player shouldn't be in the League just because he can fight. I'd rather see the fights happen due to the emotion of the game, in the heat of battle. Between the tough players who player a regular shift such as Lucic against Hartnell. But it just hasn't come to fruition fully yet.

I like the teal color used in the legendary Islander's Gordon Fisherman jerseys.
- WayneZ

I like green

It's getting bad. The federal agency responsible for cleaning debris has not reported to work for some unknown reason.
- WayneZ

Damned Lib...Conserv...who the Hell is in charge of poop like that?

Doop's gone? Maybe it'll be Song 2 by Blur again lol
- Hextall271

isn't that the song of about a half dozen teams?

I just want something original ... that belongs to the Flyers.

isn't that the song of about a half dozen teams?

I just want something original ... that belongs to the Flyers.

- FlyerGuy

I got it....


ABACAB!!!

Rinaldo is in my top 5 Flyers. All those other guys were brainless. And I hate that poop.

Downie was brainless on the Flyers...not so much anymore.
- Giroux_Is_God

Haha ohh believe me I thought what they did was stupid, but I just cant help but cheer for a guy who plays the game or does things based purely on emotion.

I relate to it on a personal level.

I got it....


ABACAB!!!
- Jsaquella

not feeling optimistic about this season
hope the flyers prove me wrong

Fighting is a frequent event in NHL Hockey. You can't compare sports where a fight is a rare event.
- MJL

Well I can because I obviously just did. If you take the goon fights out of hockey is the frequency really that different and why is fighting more frequent than in Football. There's no logical reason. You can easily argue that there are vastly more cheap shots and violent contact in Football. The league doesn't accept fighting as part of their sport. They legislate against it.

It's not like I'm comparing Football, Basketball and Baseball to boxing or the MMA where punching and kicking each other IS the sport. There's no reason for fighting to be an integral part of a hockey game other than that it's accepted. Good gods, there are rules in place that legislate how you can fight in hockey now. To me, that's ludicrous. You fight you leave, just like the other team sports.

(this is a different discussion than our goon discussion)

Or you could ignore the other team's enforcer completely... like when Rupp skated away from Shelley and called him "irrelevant" to his face.


Let's be honest... there's only 2 reasons why there's still fighting in the game, and neither of those has to do with exacting retribution, protecting teammates, or saving teammates from having to engage guys above their weight-class:

1) There are about 10-20 NHLPA members that depend on fighting to feed their families, and they just happen to be the nicest guys in the world,

2) Fighting sells tickets and is an easy entry point into the game for casual fans.


Period.
- Tomahawk

Skating away is not always reality. Time and place. Even enforcers skate away occasionally if it's not the right time for it when challenged. And don't try and pretend that's not true.
And I disagree on that's the only reason a fight happens. Fights are often spontaneous and happen in the heat of the battle form the emotion of a game. And those players aren't in the League just because they can fight. And they aren't thinking about selling tickets when challenged. That's on the ice.

Now as far as the League, and the ruling bodies still allowing fighting, that may be part of the case.

Damned Lib...Conserv...who the Hell is in charge of poop like that?
- Jsaquella

I don't know why but I have a feeling Richard Cheney is behind it. It's the man/bear/pig scenario all over again.

Forget Orr is playing tonight (I know it's reality), would you rather pay to watch Ty McGinn or Scott Laughton play hockey tonight or would you rather watch Jay Rosehill? Because when it comes right down to it don't we want to see the best hockey players play the game? We are sitting down to watch hockey right?
- mayorofangrytown

And if you're not, there's UFC for you and I don't have to watch it.

not feeling optimistic about this season
hope the flyers prove me wrong
- 2Real

Real2Real, you're already on suicide watch?

not feeling optimistic about this season
hope the flyers prove me wrong
- 2Real

Do you feel optimistic about anything ever?

isn't that the song of about a half dozen teams?

I just want something original ... that belongs to the Flyers.

- FlyerGuy

Hahah, maybe some Motley crue or metallica?

I hate the Habs, but I love how right before faceoff in the 2nd and 3rd periods they play for whom the bell tolls by metallica. They've been playing it for years and years too.

I got it....


ABACAB!!!
- Jsaquella

I was going to vote for Dodo/Lurker.

I don't know why but I have a feeling Richard Cheney is behind it. It's the man/bear/pig scenario all over again.
- WayneZ

I need to get me a job putting up the debris sign