The only argument for goons (edit: I meant fighting) that ever made any sense to me is that it's better to respond to a cheap shot with a fight, rather than with another cheap shot. And if you ban fighting, then the incidence of cheap shots will increase - since that will be the only payback option.

Personally, I would still watch every second of every Flyers game even if fighting was banned. I just don't think it would impact the game one iota ... and it might even improve it as the more skilled guys replace the goons.

And if you don't dress one, what does the other one do?

Play four minutes or less and eat up bench space.
- mayorofangrytown

Exactly. People can make the "Do you want Hartnell or Simmonds fighting a goon" argument all they want, but for the most part, the goons fight other goons or guys like Shawn Thornton or Travis Moen, who aren't goons, but who can handle themselves in a fight.

I posted it earlier, over the last 3 years, Colton Orr hasn't fought anyone on the level of a Hartnell or Simmonds. It's other goons, guys like Moen and one against Kaleta.

I think the point is, you cant take goons out of the sport without taking fighting out of the sport. They have tried over and over again. Instigator penality. Fighting 3 times suspensions. under 2 minutes in a game suspension. Unless you completely get rid of fighting, teams will always find a way to dress a goon. And as long as a team finds a way to dress a goon, other teams will dress goons.
- youarewrong

Why can't you treat it like other sports? There's fighting in Football, Baseball and Basketball. They don't carry goons to take care of it because 1. they're more interested in getting the best players out there to win the game and 2. they punish the players who get in the fights significantly enough for it to be a deterrent.

You'll never remove fighting from competitive sports I doubt. The Mets and Yankees don't have two guys come off the end of the bench to fight because Matt Harvey threw at Derek Jetter. That would be stupid.

This is what dry island must have felt like.

Why can't you treat it like other sports? There's fighting in Football, Baseball and Basketball. They don't carry goons to take care of it because 1. they're more interested in getting the best players out there to win the game and 2. they punish the players who get in the fights significantly enough for it to be a deterrent.

You'll never remove fighting from competitive sports I doubt. The Mets and Yankees don't have two guys come off the end of the bench to fight because Matt Harvey threw at Derek Jetter. That would be stupid.
- mayorofangrytown

Hockey is the only sport to employ players whose only legitimate function is to break the rules of the sport

Yeah, I don't see the downside to not having a goon in that scenario. Except that you might score another goal in those four minutes.
- BulliesPhan87

It's just tradition... most people just accept it as being part of the game.

Which makes the leagues strategy of bleeding fighting slowly through small safety rules so ingenious.

This is what dry island must have felt like.
- flyer_nutter

The only argument for goons that ever made any sense to me is that it's better to respond to a cheap shot with a fight, rather than with another cheap shot. And if you ban fighting, then the incidence of cheap shots will increase - since that will be the only payback option.

Personally, I would still watch every second of every Flyers game even if fighting was banned. I just don't think it would impact the game one iota ... and it might even improve it as the more skilled guys replace the goons.
- FlyerGuy

You already have penalties legislated into the game to handle cheap shots. Enforce them.

These guys are paid to fight. That's what they do, they fight. They aren't good enough to play the game at this level so they fight and they pay them to fight.

You already have penalties legislated into the game to handle cheap shots. Enforce them.

These guys are paid to fight. That's what they do, they fight. They aren't good enough to play the game at this level so they fight and they pay them to fight.
- mayorofangrytown

sure, but just about every game will have a cheap shot that the refs will miss, and the other team feels it must respond to. Ban fighting, and the only way to retaliate for the cheap shot would be another cheap shot. Or a goal, obviously.


not defending fighting, btw.

In the distance I hear pencil scribbling and fact checking

In the distance I hear pencil scribbling and fact checking
- funmaster18

In the distance I hear pencil scribbling and fact checking
- funmaster18

I actually watched like 30 seconds of Michael Barkann & Philly sports talk because I thought the game was at 7...

sure, but just about every game will have a cheap shot that the refs will miss, and the other team feels it must respond to. Ban fighting, and the only way to retaliate for the cheap shot would be another cheap shot. Or a goal, obviously.


not defending fighting, btw.
- FlyerGuy

We have goons now. Doesn't the scenario you're floating happen every game? Goons don't seem to be deterring any of that.

Ahhh (frank) it, its like a hot piece of ass shaking in front of me, Im caught.

Fighting to me, will only stop if someone dies or is severely paralyzed. It was ugly what happened to Parros last night.

From somewhat of a medical point of view, the trauma these guys put on their brain by continously fighting will really impact them down the line. Anywhere from severe dementia, to stroke or embolism.

Thats the only thing I really care about, and its sad that people cheer for such a thing. Wont lie though, I do too, you just get into it as a fan sometimes. Its also very market-able, and makes the NHL somewhat special. Look at the commercial for the new NHL game, scenes of fighting.

Now would I be one in favour of getting rid of it? Who knows. What I would stand up and fight for is better medical evaluations, and scans for these guys that do fight.

The one thing I will say, is that there are certain players, that can fight and play a solid game. Now to me, its important to find those players, and not fill them with easy one dimensional fixes. Thats all on the GM's, and Holmgren in particular.

It's just tradition... most people just accept it as being part of the game.

Which makes the leagues strategy of bleeding fighting slowly through small safety rules so ingenious.
- Tomahawk

I wonder what the next small rule will be. A fine for any player who throws punches with both hands in the same bout? No grabbing of the other player's jersey? No fighting during the even numbered minutes?

I actually watched like 30 seconds of Michael Barkann & Philly sports talk because I thought the game was at 7...
- Jsaquella

I can't stand barkann anymore

I can't stand barkann anymore
- funmaster18

Barkann is awful. His voice and mannerisms are intolerable at this point. Dislike.

I wonder what the next small rule will be. A fine for any player who throws punches with both hands in the same bout? No grabbing of the other player's jersey? No fighting during the even numbered minutes?
- BulliesPhan87

I think the next step is game misconducts.

Ahhh (frank) it, its like a hot piece of ass shaking in front of me, Im caught.

Fighting to me, will only stop if someone dies or is severely paralyzed. It was ugly what happened to Parros last night.

From somewhat of a medical point of view, the trauma these guys put on their brain by continously fighting will really impact them down the line. Anywhere from severe dementia, to stroke or embolism.

Thats the only thing I really care about, and its sad that people cheer for such a thing. Wont lie though, I do too, you just get into it as a fan sometimes. Its also very market-able, and makes the NHL somewhat special. Look at the commercial for the new NHL game, scenes of fighting.

Now would I be one in favour of getting rid of it? Who knows. What I would stand up and fight for is better medical evaluations, and scans for these guys that do fight.
- flyer_nutter

I'd still watch if there wasn't fighting, just like I'll watch tonight, when there almost certainly will be some.

Most of the discussion/disagreement is over the "designated fighters" like Colton Orr and Jay Rosehill and the necessity of carrying one/dressing one for games.

Personally, I love a good fight, that comes from heated game action. The kind of fights that make up the bulk of Orr and Rosehill's fight cards are stupid and pointless, guys fighting just to justify their jobs

My issue here isnt so much with the Flyers choosing to play Rosehill tonight.

Its with the fact that they havent found a capable player of being able to scrap when needed, but also being able to play a solid 4th line shift.

We have goons now. Doesn't the scenario you're floating happen every game? Goons don't seem to be deterring any of that.
- mayorofangrytown

I never said goons would deter cheap shots. I said the only argument I ever halfway accepted is that by banning fighting you might see a corresponding increase in cheap shots. There will always be a player or two who is looking for payback.

I can't stand barkann anymore
- funmaster18

Once he got to WIP, he really got annoying...maybe he was before, but I never had much issue with him until he went to WIP and had to be a braying jackass 5 days a week.

My issue here isnt so much with the Flyers choosing to play Rosehill tonight.

Its with the fact that they havent found a capable player of being able to scrap when needed, but also being able to play a solid 4th line shift.
- flyer_nutter

Halleujah!!!

I'd still watch if there wasn't fighting, just like I'll watch tonight, when there almost certainly will be some.

Most of the discussion/disagreement is over the "designated fighters" like Colton Orr and Jay Rosehill and the necessity of carrying one/dressing one for games.

Personally, I love a good fight, that comes from heated game action. The kind of fights that make up the bulk of Orr and Rosehill's fight cards are stupid and pointless, guys fighting just to justify their jobs
- Jsaquella

To a degree, I am all with you on that.

Where we differ I think, is my heat is directed at Holmgren for finding such one dimensional fighters, who do nothing but that.

Edit: You want to have a player that is ready to drop the gloves at any time? Or carry that tradition? By all means, but make sure the guy can play a regular (frank)ing shift. Not the trash of Cote, Shelley and Rosehill.

Barkann is awful. His voice and mannerisms are intolerable at this point. Dislike.
- BulliesPhan87

He hides his lack of knowledge and integrity behind his over enthusiastic personality