Might it be possible though that the 4th round pick with all of 19 games in the NHL is a flash in the pan? Is it worth alienating a 6th overall pick with tons of upside to give Pageau a spot? I'm not saying this as a Leafs fan or a Sens hater but I really hope this comes back to bite Ottawa because it's a weird way of doing things.
- Jeffmt

beyond all the other stuff people think this is about, i really think this was a message sending move...go to the AHL get your poop together, better effort and focus and you are back on the big team...i think he thought he was guaranteed a spot on the team (and to that I do believe hes clearly an NHL player) so he didnt push himself...management wants to see more..hes only 20, remember he only played so many games last season because of injuries, he started the season in the AHL last year as well.

he needs to respond to this and show his stuff

Leafs took the same tough approach with Kadri and that has worked out well hasn't it?

You, my friend, are a welcome addition to reason. Not everything is a conspiracy theory involving money. Sometimes, it's about icing the best product. After every game Pageau, Conacher and Da Costa played, they were mentioned as being standouts. The same cannot be said for Zibanejad.
- van halen

While I agree with all of this, why not keep JOB as the 23rd roster player? He's past the point of development in the minors. Best case scenario for him is that he plays well in the AHL - but then what? He has to pass re-entry waivers, and if he's looking like a viable player after a successful stint in Bingo, he'll be claimed.

I'm not all for conspiracy theories either, but Melnyk has proven himself to be questionable over the past year. I, like many others, no longer trust his motivation or believe what he has to say. He said the other day that he'll do "whatever it takes" to win ... if that were true, I would bet that Murray would have done more this summer (like sign a better dman than Corvo). But his hands were tied.

Melnyk and the team are the ones that created the internal budget - they brought the money aspect into this. Couple that with attendance/ticket prices rank versus payroll, and unfortunately, bringing budget into the discussion of this team's moves and decision-making is fair and quite reasonable.

But it's not alienation. It's not that at all. The NHL, as with all pro sports, is driven by results. You give better prospects more chances, but you don't make a team based on potential. Zibanejad will hopefully get some good advice from management, coaching, his agent, and his family, and use this as motivation to get better. This isn't the first time he's had a 'lazy' knock against him.

What also needs to be remembered is that he's still only 20, and not fully mature yet. It's not like they cut Michalek or something like that. It is initially surprising, but not completely shocking in retrospect when you look at the events of the entire training camp.
- the_terror

And I'll add to that. If Zibanejad goes down sulking and alienates himself, then the Senators absolutely made the right call. If this is the case, then he has not shown that he is mature enough to be on this team. However, I think he'll learn from this experience and hopefully come back as a more complete player.

From Bryan Murray:

@SunGarrioch: Murray said he told Zibanejad "he let two guys come in and take his job." #Sens


You don't say this if it is just about the money
- Cup 06

That is certainly sending a hardball message. Reminds me a bit of the way the Sens made Spezza earn his spot when he broke in.

If you didn't know he was our 6th overall pick, would you be that upset with this move? He's a professional who was outplayed and the organization made a tough decision. He can go down to the minors and learn from this and improve or he can sulk and alienate himself. It's not as if he has 100+ games on Pageau and Dacosta. Based on performance (and not projections), Pageau and DaCosta deserve to be there on opening night.
- van halen

If he wasn't the 6th overall? Yes, I would feel the same way. When is the last time a Senator has spent a full season in the NHL, only to go back to the AHL the next season? The reason I keep pointing out that he was 6th overall is because something like this never happens and then it does with the highest pick we've had since Spezza?

It just seems really fishy to me.

It would be one thing if DaCosta had some real potential and they were seriously considering keeping him and trading Zibby. But we all know that this is just a showcase period. It seems silly to me to showcase a guy who's return will be marginal at best while making a regular for years to come, suffer.

Leafs took the same tough approach with Kadri and that has worked out well hasn't it?
- Talkshowhost

That's a good point. I guess I'm just not sold at all on this Pageau guy.

I should add that I hate - HATE - the fact that budget and ownership's motivation have become a topic of discussion here. Before the last lockout, I was a season-ticket holder ... the fans deserve better.

Ottawa, since 2005, has averaged a 6th place ranking for attendance, while dipping no lower than 15th in ticket prices ... and for that, we're rewarded with a budget that ranks 27th (maybe lower now with Mika's salary off the books).

Simply put, something stinks right now with the off-ice reality of the Senators.

That's a good point. I guess I'm just not sold at all on this Pageau guy.
- Jeffmt

J'adore Pageau.

That's a good point. I guess I'm just not sold at all on this Pageau guy.
- Jeffmt

I think Pageau is an NHL player...im more not sold on da costa...he has a ton to prove...sure he looked pretty good in preseason..but he didnt really light it up, and at times looked lost

But it's not alienation. It's not that at all. The NHL, as with all pro sports, is driven by results. You give better prospects more chances, but you don't make a team based on potential. Zibanejad will hopefully get some good advice from management, coaching, his agent, and his family, and use this as motivation to get better. This isn't the first time he's had a 'lazy' knock against him.


- the_terror

This is where I don't agree at all. It's not about results. Zibby had 20 pts last year in a shortened season, playing in the bottom 6. Sure, his preseason may not have been great (but as I said earlier, he looked faster and stronger to me in the games I saw).

The reason he's is being sent down isn't because of a lack of production. It's because he is on a two way deal and doesn't have to clear waivers.

If Zibby was on a one-way, like DaCosta, they would have either waived DaCosta by now or carried an extra forward until they figured out what to do with him.

The reason I say he could be alienated is because he's not stupid. He knows everything I just said above. How can you not, when you are going to go from making over a Mill per year to under 100K?

If he wasn't the 6th overall? Yes, I would feel the same way. When is the last time a Senator has spent a full season in the NHL, only to go back to the AHL the next season? The reason I keep pointing out that he was 6th overall is because something like this never happens and then it does with the highest pick we've had since Spezza?

It just seems really fishy to me.

It would be one thing if DaCosta had some real potential and they were seriously considering keeping him and trading Zibby. But we all know that this is just a showcase period. It seems silly to me to showcase a guy who's return will be marginal at best while making a regular for years to come, suffer.
- Charliebox

What if this is what they're doing? They traded Silfverberg last year, who despite not being a first round pick, was thought of as being a solid top 6 player. Zibanejad isn't anywhere close to usurping Spezza or Turris, and even though Da Costa isn't either, he's perhaps better suited to playing behind those guys, and of course at 24 years old, you have a better idea of what he's going to be.

And just to play devil's advocate, what about trading Zibanejad? What if moving him out could get you the winger that MacArthur and Turris need? Someone superior to Conacher? What if a package featuring Zibanejad and Conacher could bring back someone like Yakupov or Evander Kane or something like that? Da Costa and Pageau doesn't seem like a bad way to fill out your C position if you're solid everywhere else.

I don't buy this whole 'showcase' deal. Those guys made the team, they earned their spots.

This is where I don't agree at all. It's not about results. Zibby had 20 pts last year in a shortened season, playing in the bottom 6. Sure, his preseason may not have been great (but as I said earlier, he looked faster and stronger to me in the games I saw).

The reason he's is being sent down isn't because of a lack of production. It's because he is on a two way deal and doesn't have to clear waivers.

If Zibby was on a one-way, like DaCosta, they would have either waived DaCosta by not or carried an extra forward until they figured out what to do with him.

The reason I say he could be alienated is because he's not stupid. He knows everything I just said above. How can you not, when you are going to go from making over a Mill per year to under 100K?
- Charliebox

No truer words have been posted here today.

This is where I don't agree at all. It's not about results. Zibby had 20 pts last year in a shortened season, playing in the bottom 6. Sure, his preseason may not have been great (but as I said earlier, he looked faster and stronger to me in the games I saw).

The reason he's is being sent down isn't because of a lack of production. It's because he is on a two way deal and doesn't have to clear waivers.

If Zibby was on a one-way, like DaCosta, they would have either waived DaCosta by now or carried an extra forward until they figured out what to do with him.

The reason I say he could be alienated is because he's not stupid. He knows everything I just said above. How can you not, when you are going to go from making over a Mill per year to under 100K?
- Charliebox

I'd agree that if neither of them were waiver exempt and the Senators had to choose between one, then they would probably have kept Zibanejad. But that's not what happened. I do think waivers came into it somewhat, but I don't agree that salary did. There is a clear difference between the two, so we shouldn't blur those lines.

While I agree with all of this, why not keep JOB as the 23rd roster player? He's past the point of development in the minors. Best case scenario for him is that he plays well in the AHL - but then what? He has to pass re-entry waivers, and if he's looking like a viable player after a successful stint in Bingo, he'll be claimed.

I'm not all for conspiracy theories either, but Melnyk has proven himself to be questionable over the past year. I, like many others, no longer trust his motivation or believe what he has to say. He said the other day that he'll do "whatever it takes" to win ... if that were true, I would bet that Murray would have done more this summer (like sign a better dman than Corvo). But his hands were tied.

Melnyk and the team are the ones that created the internal budget - they brought the money aspect into this. Couple that with attendance/ticket prices rank versus payroll, and unfortunately, bringing budget into the discussion of this team's moves and decision-making is fair and quite reasonable.
- TreeSens

I understand your frustrations about Melnyk. However, in this case, I really do think it's about a player being outplayed by three others. No more, no less. Yet, with the events which have transpired in the last few months, your point of view is more than understandable. And I am not entirely opposed to an internal budget. Nashville and Edmonton have higher budgets than we do, yet I don't consider them better teams. We're a young team whose management has drafted extremely well which affords us the luxury of being more economical with our budget. Not necessarily cheap but economical. I would rather keep what we have now then bring in a "Ville Leino" type player just so we can say we "dipped" into the free agent market. People forget we also traded for Bobby Ryan this summer because we had the assets to do so. In the end, that move might be remembered as the best of the summer of 2013.[

Gardiner for Zibanejad ?
- senstroll

That's a good point. I guess I'm just not sold at all on this Pageau guy.
- Jeffmt

Well sure, but he's earned a spot on the team as of now. Guy is playing great.

And here's another point. Take Da Costa out of the equation, and put this down to a question of Zibanejad vs Pageau.

Potential: Zibanejad > Pageau

Size: Zibanejad > Pageau

Both have to clear waivers. Both the same age. By the logic being executed by some folks, then they should have kept Zibanejad up and sent Pageau down.

BUT

On ice performance: Pageau >>>> Zibanejad

He got outplayed by two guys that shouldn't have been able to outplay him.

Nice to see Zibanejad's speed and two-way play were no match for that one time Pageau scored a hat-trick the playoffs.

What if this is what they're doing? They traded Silfverberg last year, who despite not being a first round pick, was thought of as being a solid top 6 player. Zibanejad isn't anywhere close to usurping Spezza or Turris, and even though Da Costa isn't either, he's perhaps better suited to playing behind those guys, and of course at 24 years old, you have a better idea of what he's going to be.

And just to play devil's advocate, what about trading Zibanejad? What if moving him out could get you the winger that MacArthur and Turris need? Someone superior to Conacher? What if a package featuring Zibanejad and Conacher could bring back someone like Yakupov or Evander Kane or something like that? Da Costa and Pageau doesn't seem like a bad way to fill out your C position if you're solid everywhere else.

I don't buy this whole 'showcase' deal. Those guys made the team, they earned their spots.
- the_terror

It's possible they are trading Zibby. Its doubtful, but anything is possible.

All I know is that DaCosta is not in Ottawa to be in the bottom 6. And by all accounts, that's where it seems he is going to start the year.

One problem with this line of thinking: the team is way, way under the cap ... if Melnyk considered this team a contender, Alfie would still be here. But he nickle-and-dimed him to try and save money. Melnyk needs to go.

I guess this is all part of Melnyk's ongoing plan to do "whatever it takes" to win. This approach includes: letting your captain and best player in franchise history to leave, when they had no need to; spending way under the cap; carrying less players than allowed (really, this alone makes this seem like nothing more than an attempt to save money); sending Mika down, even though his development in the AHL was terrible when compared to his development in the NHL.

"Whatever it takes", eh Melnyk?
- TreeSens

as far as i can see, ryan (the guy who replaced alfie) makes more money than alfredsson does, so that makes no sense to me. alfie isn't here because alfie wanted to change teams/got bored of ottawa/felt like it got stale here, and because your GM didn't think he was worth the money at his age (age catches up to everyone eventually).

ryan makes over $1 million more than alfie.

It's possible they are trading Zibby. Its doubtful, but anything is possible.

All I know is that DaCosta is not in Ottawa to be in the bottom 6. And by all accounts, that's where it seems he is going to start the year.
- Charliebox

Well you don't know that, per se. You're assuming that. But we would also assume that Zibanejad isn't exactly projected to be a 3rd liner either.

Leafs took the same tough approach with Kadri and that has worked out well hasn't it?
- Talkshowhost

No he is a bust

No he is a bust
- senstroll

He's no Bozak, that's for sure.

as far as i can see, ryan (the guy who replaced alfie) makes more money than alfredsson does, so that makes no sense to me. alfie isn't here because alfie wanted to change teams/got bored of ottawa/felt like it got stale here, and because your GM didn't think he was worth the money at his age (age catches up to everyone eventually).

ryan makes over $1 million more than alfie.
- rangerdanger94

This is because people were calling, cancelling their seasons tickets en masse when they found out about Alfie signing elsewhere.

There has always been an over-the-top, unhealthy love for Alfie around here. Sure, love the guy and all, but people were very pissed. We are talking about a fanbase that has a hard time mustering up a 'go sens go' chant in a reagular season game, yet can scream 'alfie, alfie, alfie' at the top of their lungs at the 11 min mark of every period.

In some people's eyes, Alfie was bigger than the team.

The Bobby Ryan deal was reactionary. I still think the Sens gave up too much, but Murray had to do something and they could have done a lot worse (ie traded for someone else or overpaid a free agent). At that point, the 1M in extra salary was a better option than losing that many season's ticket holders.