Nothing personal Jake, but to me:
Boucher, Leighton, Rookie Bobrovsky, Broken Hip Emery, Biron and Mason

Are junkyard trash compared to Lundqvist.

I just think they need to continue taking the time to build this right. It will take time. They can continue to try and stay competative by getting stop-gaps like Streit, but the crew needs more ELITE talent on that back end.
- flyer_nutter

Of course they're junkyard talent, but ever notice how the top 3 goalies in the league (Lundqvist, Quick, Rask) all play for teams with strong defensive games? Don't get me wrong, if Lundqvist were to theoretically become a Flyer overnight, he would be the best goalie to wear a Flyers uniform in a long, long time. At the same time, I think that in this very goalie unfriendly system/environment, Flyers fans would be unpleasantly surprised at the numbers he would put up, and the number of goals we would still allow per game.

Definately.

Its a mix of a bunch of things imo. I have for a long time thought that while talented, they are kind of a group that has too much "stupid" in them. Weird thing to say I suppose.

I still say 2-3 years before you see this team get competative. Management just needs to be smart, and to be if there is an option to improve that back end with quality instead of quantity, you make it.
- flyer_nutter

I don't disagree, but I also want to see them avoid going out and hunting a big name guy and paying a premium because other teams know they're looking hard.

It's going to cost a lot anyhow, but by tweaking things systemically-not going into a Devils trap, but by making 200 foot play the key-they can be solid and mitigate the need a bit.

Coburn was particularly bad tonight.

Saginaw - 3
London - 6

Stolarz with 36 saves

Of course they're junkyard talent, but ever notice how the top 3 goalies in the league (Lundqvist, Quick, Rask) all play for teams with strong defensive games? Don't get me wrong, if Lundqvist were to theoretically become a Flyer overnight, he would be the best goalie to wear a Flyers uniform in a long, long time. At the same time, I think that in this very goalie unfriendly system/environment, Flyers fans would be unpleasantly surprised at the numbers he would put up, and the number of goals we would still allow per game.
- JAKEw1234

For sure.

I get the desire to move to a defensive identity. It makes sense, and if it happens so be it. Its not the only way to skin a cat though as Chicago, Detriot, Pittsburgh and other teams have shown.

See to me though, to excel at that defensive identity I think you need a solid goaltender first and foremost, and then to have the majority of your players with a consistent solid work ethic, but more importantly good defensive IQ's.

I dont see that when I look at this team. Whats even a little more frustrating, is that they apparently dont seem to be built well enough to run the "run and gun", either. I see them somewhere in the middle.

The reason why, I would reluctantly call for a coaching change, is for that reason. A more middle of the road system, which I will admit, this is not. Crucial to that point though? I personally dont believe in such a thing. I think you need to have a solid identity, and stick to that.

Essentially, look at a team like Chicago or Detriot. They do not play D first by any means. However they have smart, and dedicated players that have solid defensive IQ. I see that largely missing from this squad. Will a coaching change fix that? Lets hope.

Coburn was particularly bad tonight.
- Feanor

Lone Flyers to finish with a + rating.

The product on the ice is far worse than what we should be seeing. I just wonder if holmer goes out with lava

They have the pieces, it just doesn't seem to be clicking at this point. I'd give Lavy 15-20 games at most. If they aren't playing well by then see yah.

It's ridiculous how bad the Philly pro teams have been for a couple years now. This is hard to do.

For sure.

I get the desire to move to a defensive identity. It makes sense, and if it happens so be it. Its not the only way to skin a cat though as Chicago, Detriot, Pittsburgh and other teams have shown.

See to me though, to excel at that defensive identity I think you need a solid goaltender first and foremost, and then to have the majority of your players with a consistent solid work ethic, but more importantly good defensive IQ's.

I dont see that when I look at this team. Whats even a little more frustrating, is that they apparently dont seem to be built well enough to run the "run and gun", either. I see them somewhere in the middle.

The reason why, I would reluctantly call for a coaching change, is for that reason. A more middle of the road system, which I will admit, this is not. Crucial to that point though? I personally dont believe in such a thing. I think you need to have a solid identity, and stick to that.
- flyer_nutter

I'm not reluctant to call for a coaching change. There IS no identity. There has been nothing done to counter the poor results against teams that attack them like the Devils and Rangers do. Some of that is on the players, but it's mostly on the coach for not devising a way to beat those teams.

You have to coach your team to it's abilities. This team doesn't have guys that can lace a 25 foot outlet pass through 2 opposing forwards. So stop asking them to.

I look at a 1-4-1 preseason and I'm more troubled by the ongoing trends. No fire at the start of the game. Horrible transitional play. No adjustments made to counteract a team that traps and has a hard forecheck. Getting badly out played in the first and third periods of games. Coverage breakdowns from undisciplined play...we've all seen this movie, it;s been playing for a couple years now

Lone Flyers to finish with a + rating.
- Jsaquella

i know there's much more talent here -at least i think there is- but does this team have an eerie '06- '07 vibe to them?

The product on the ice is far worse than what we should be seeing. I just wonder if holmer goes out with lava
- Just5

He shouldn't. He's done a good job and built a good team.

The product on the ice is far worse than what we should be seeing. I just wonder if holmer goes out with lava
- Just5

Not worried about the preseason record, but I am worried about the way we are playing especially with a full lineup. I say lavy gets about 10-15 games, and if what we saw tonight is what we see in the reg season, then he's gone. I can't see Homer going yet unless it's an 06/07 meltdown.

I'm not reluctant to call for a coaching change. There IS no identity. There has been nothing done to counter the poor results against teams that attack them like the Devils and Rangers do. Some of that is on the players, but it's mostly on the coach for not devising a way to beat those teams.

You have to coach your team to it's abilities. This team doesn't have guys that can lace a 25 foot outlet pass through 2 opposing forwards. So stop asking them to.

I look at a 1-4-1 preseason and I'm more troubled by the ongoing trends. No fire at the start of the game. Horrible transitional play. No adjustments made to counteract a team that traps and has a hard forecheck. Getting badly out played in the first and third periods of games. Coverage breakdowns from undisciplined play...we've all seen this movie, it;s been playing for a couple years now
- Jsaquella

hard to argue

i know there's much more talent here -at least i think there is- but does this team have an eerie '06- '07 vibe to them?
- isaiah520

Not yet, because there is talent. Headed into that 2006-07 season, they had Foppa and Gagne and unproven kids.

They have the pieces, it just doesn't seem to be clicking at this point. I'd give Lavy 15-20 games at most. If they aren't playing well by then see yah.
- jstross

What would their record have to be at the 20 game mark to justify a coaching move?

I'm not reluctant to call for a coaching change. There IS no identity. There has been nothing done to counter the poor results against teams that attack them like the Devils and Rangers do. Some of that is on the players, but it's mostly on the coach for not devising a way to beat those teams.

You have to coach your team to it's abilities. This team doesn't have guys that can lace a 25 foot outlet pass through 2 opposing forwards. So stop asking them to.

I look at a 1-4-1 preseason and I'm more troubled by the ongoing trends. No fire at the start of the game. Horrible transitional play. No adjustments made to counteract a team that traps and has a hard forecheck. Getting badly out played in the first and third periods of games. Coverage breakdowns from undisciplined play...we've all seen this movie, it;s been playing for a couple years now
- Jsaquella

For sure, and I think we will see Murray behind the bench sooner than later.

I'll ask you something which I just brought up a bit with the edit in my last post, and something that concerns me.

Do you believe the team currently as constructed, is built to successfully run a defensive minded system? In particular the work ethic, goaltending, and defensive IQ?

I truly hope so, but this Nutter has his doubts. I think management has collected too much of a group that individually has sub-par defensive games, and issues with consistency, doing so for a few years now.

We will see of course.

Goodnight, and good hockey.

Not yet, because there is talent. Headed into that 2006-07 season, they had Foppa and Gagne and unproven kids.
- Jsaquella

What? they also had Sanderson and Robitaille... cmon! lol

What would their record have to be at the 20 game mark to justify a coaching move?
- 77rams

maybe 8-12 or less?

What would their record have to be at the 20 game mark to justify a coaching move?
- 77rams

I think it'd have to be more related to how they're playing. If they're .500 and they're still wildly inconsistent, I think it might be enough for a plug to be pulled.

If they don;t make the playoffs, Holmgren has his own skin to consider.

I think Holmgren can see this train wreck coming. I think it was earlier in the week he made comments that sounded strange. Some thing like "this is a real tough league" when asked about the upcoming season


I found that to be damning statement. It was totally out of the blue

He shouldn't. He's done a good job and built a good team.
- JAKEw1234

I have my doubts, and I place so much blame on Holmgren.

The issues that have remained with this team, have also remained under his tenure.

I dont fall to the belief of this being a good team that is just run poorly, and that alone. Holmgren to me, has continously failed to ignore the fact that he employs talent that is too inconsistent in its work ethic, and most of all is poor in its defensive game/awareness to begin with.

For sure, and I think we will see Murray behind the bench sooner than later.

I'll ask you something which I just brought up a bit with the edit in my last post, and something that concerns me.

Do you believe the team currently as constructed, is built to successfully run a defensive minded system? In particular the work ethic, goaltending, and defensive IQ?

I truly hope so, but this Nutter has his doubts. I think management has collected too much of a group that individually has sub-par defensive games, and issues with consistency, doing so for a few years now.

We will see of course.

Goodnight, and good hockey.
- flyer_nutter

I don't think they need to make radical changes to the system. I think they need to play a better 200 foot game, provide more and better puck support and options in the transition game and they need to find a way to ramp up the intensity from the drop of the puck.

Only saw the last five minutes of the game, but I guess by the score and the comments, it wasn't pretty. Just reading through, I wanted to make a comment about a so called offensive identity versus a defensive identity. It's not one or the other. There is another choice. And that's a solid all around identity. And make no mistake about it. Every good team out there including Detroit and Chicago, their Coaches stress defensive play and demand it. And they provide the team with the structure to do so. A top Coach wants his team to be a hard team to play against in all 3 zones. On the offensive and defensive side of the puck. It's not a choice between being an offensive or defensive team. Good teams choose both!

I think it'd have to be more related to how they're playing. If they're .500 and they're still wildly inconsistent, I think it might be enough for a plug to be pulled.

If they don;t make the playoffs, Holmgren has his own skin to consider.
- Jsaquella

Would Mr. Snyder consider a Clarke/Hitchcock sweep if they're swooning at the 20 game mark?