I would take JT over Stepan as a Rangers fan, however I think Stepan is a bit underrated by opposing fan bases. He may not be flashy but he plays in all 3 zones, penalty kill, PP, and I think eventually will be a 30+ goal guy. Those kind of guys are not easy to find.
- pcjr307

Think about this, the 2010 draft, so many centers taken before Stepan. A lot of busts.

Think about this, the 2010 draft, so many centers taken before Stepan. A lot of busts.
- blacksheep1

You want busts? Look at the 2007 draft. Weakest draft in the past decade by a lot.

Probably has to do with his 1.90 career playoff pts/GP.
1.74 career playoff pts/GP if you take out that Pens series.

Edit: But to each their own.
- jmatchett383

Sooooo, is Bryan Bickell almost Elite? Brian Boyle is great in the playoffs for the Rangers, should we consider him "elite within our team"? I think we can all agree that the Flyer's players that have some serious playoff points in their books were recipients of some messed up series. Your taking a sample size thats tiny (Giroux's playoff performance) and adding also a huge doubling factor to it (the Pitts series) and saying Giroux is an Elite player thats more elite than Nash? Thats homerism at its best.

Well, he did play crazy good against a STACKED Team Canada. On paper, the US had no business winning that game.
- jmatchett383

He let in 2 mediocre goals in the 3rd period.

Rick Nash is an extremely talented player, and a premier power forward in the league. That said, I wouldn't call him "elite" as very few players are elite. Within the division, I'd call Crosby, Malkin, Lundqvist, Tavares, Giroux, and Ovechkin elite, and that's about it. To me, Nash is on that second level. Very good, top-line player, but not elite. That's my only argument against some of the words thrown around (I know your post didn't say it, but someone did).

That said, when I watch him, he rarely ever has that "wow" factor. Same with RNH. He puts up numbers, but he (almost) never does something dazzling. Good speed, great size, fantastic shot, but he never blows me away. But I'd take him on my team, if we weren't already up against the cap.
- jmatchett383

Have you seen some of Rick Nash's highlights? I agree with you that Nash isn't on the level of the names above but Rick Nash rarely gives you flashes of brilliance? Dude you need to go hit up youtube then come back here. Please watch this please. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVL5bSTrNiQ

You want busts? Look at the 2007 draft. Weakest draft in the past decade by a lot.
- jmatchett383

I know. Subban, Benn and Hegelin are like the only 3 guys taken after the 1st round to be legit NHLers.

Edit: Forgot Simmonds

Sooooo, is Bryan Bickell almost Elite? Brian Boyle is great in the playoffs for the Rangers, should we consider him "elite within our team"? I think we can all agree that the Flyer's players that have some serious playoff points in their books were recipients of some messed up series. Your taking a sample size thats tiny (Giroux's playoff performance) and adding also a huge doubling factor to it (the Pitts series) and saying Giroux is an Elite player thats more elite than Nash? Thats homerism at its best.
- xcheckmajor

Well, like I said, to each their own. I think Giroux is and that Nash isn't.

Facts? I'm looking at Nash's career numbers..? You can look at them too. And the Ladd to Nash comparison you guys CLEARLY don't get. Like I said, take goal-scoring out of the equation and who is a better player? Really, think about it.... As I stated in another post, AS OF RIGHT NOW, Ladd is better player, using this past year a bit as a sample size, Ladd is NO DOUBT a better overall player. Using the sample size of a career to look on, then CLEARRRRRRLY Nash is the better player. Without question. But in this small-same size I'm talking about, the past season or so, Ladd is a better overall player.
- Flyers_V88

LOL WTF why would you take goal scoring out of the equation when comparing players? Idk am I the only one that finds this absolutely hysterical?

Impossible to compare elite centers to high scoring power forwards.

Crosby is in a class by himself; players like Malkin, Tavares, Giroux, Datsyuk, Toews etc. being clearly behind him.

As far as wingers go, Nash can hang with the best of the best. There really is no doubt in my mind about that.
- MidnightMarauder

COMEPLETELY DISAGREE

Crosby is in a class by himself offensively, but Ive seen crosby on several occasions get shut down in the offensive end by solid defensive forwards and render him useless in games

Guys who are ELITE over 200 ft of ice turn defense into offense and can impact the game in other areas.

Guys like Toews, Datsyuk, Giroux, Tavares are a danger at any spot of the ice

Yes, Crosby is high and by far the best offensive player in the game, but when Crosby gets a tight, grade A checking assignment on him, you might as well have anyone out there.

LOL WTF why would you take goal scoring out of the equation when comparing players? Idk am I the only one that finds this absolutely hysterical?
- adwolf130

Silly wabbit, what does goal scoring have to due with hockey stats?

Have you seen some of Rick Nash's highlights? I agree with you that Nash isn't on the level of the names above but Rick Nash rarely gives you flashes of brilliance? Dude you need to go hit up youtube then come back here. Please watch this please. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVL5bSTrNiQ
- adwolf130

Yes, and I can show you highlight reel goal after highlight reel goal of Nikolai Zherdev, but that doesn't make him elite or a "wow" factor player for me.

Silly wabbit, what does goal scoring have to due with hockey stats?
- B2B76

So....Lundqvist is bad???
/sarcasm...obviously.

He let in 2 mediocre goals in the 3rd period.
- blacksheep1

He did, that's true.

LOL WTF why would you take goal scoring out of the equation when comparing players? Idk am I the only one that finds this absolutely hysterical?
- adwolf130

You should never take goal scoring out of the equation

but here is an example, and Im not at all comparing Nash to them, but look at the Sedins

Take away goals and assists, and you have the most useless players in hockey

not physical, no good defensively, dont penalty kill, dont back check, arent great skaters, etc

i just think thats the point he is trying to highlight

Yes, and I can show you highlight reel goal after highlight reel goal of Nikolai Zherdev, but that doesn't make him elite or a "wow" factor player for me.
- jmatchett383

Please don't.

You should never take goal scoring out of the equation

but here is an example, and Im not at all comparing Nash to them, but look at the Sedins

Take away goals and assists, and you have the most useless players in hockey

not physical, no good defensively, dont penalty kill, dont back check, arent great skaters, etc

i just think thats the point he is trying to highlight
- FourFeathers773

Pavel Bure might be the best example. Skate straight ahead, shoot score. Not much else to his game (aside from speed).

I guess Sather won this time around.
- mighty13duck

Sather was going to win either way.. Happy it's done though.

Yes, and I can show you highlight reel goal after highlight reel goal of Nikolai Zherdev, but that doesn't make him elite or a "wow" factor player for me.
- jmatchett383

Dude did you read anything that I wrote? I just agreed with you that Nash isn't on par with those players. You said that Nash hardly ever does anything dazzling or "wows" you. That's quite the contrary because Rick Nash has scored some unbelievable goals. Idk if you have ever put on a pair of skates but it takes a ton of (frank)ing talent to do what he has done with the puck... Just saying.

Here's a very interesting stat line, no names but can we guess who they were

48 18 26 44 +25

48 28 19 47 -2
- cranford93

Please don't.
- blacksheep1

haha, don't wanna torture people.

Most players with good touch have a good collection of highlight reel goals, but that doesn't mean they're the type of players who bring you out of your seats.

For example, there was about a 4-year span where, every time Ilya Kovalchuk had the puck with a full head of steam, he made you excited that he was gonna do something crazy. To me, Nash doesn't have that. But I guess he does for some, which is fine.

Tavares is clearly a more explosive player, a little more flashy. Thats just not Stepan's style. To be honest at this point in time, I WOULD take Stepan over JT simply because you have the same point production, but Stepan gives you a 3rd defenseman on the ice as well. Now, JT may have a higher future ceiling in point production, that would change my mind. But if both players have careers that average 75 - 90pts, I would take Step for all the other things JT doesn't do.
- xcheckmajor

You guys are unbelievable

You should never take goal scoring out of the equation

but here is an example, and Im not at all comparing Nash to them, but look at the Sedins

Take away goals and assists, and you have the most useless players in hockey

not physical, no good defensively, dont penalty kill, dont back check, arent great skaters, etc

i just think thats the point he is trying to highlight
- FourFeathers773

Well that's a dumb (frank)ing point to make.

You should never take goal scoring out of the equation

but here is an example, and Im not at all comparing Nash to them, but look at the Sedins

Take away goals and assists, and you have the most useless players in hockey

not physical, no good defensively, dont penalty kill, dont back check, arent great skaters, etc

i just think thats the point he is trying to highlight
- FourFeathers773

Useless. Sure, useless player win Rocket Richard trophies are all stars, are point per game players at the international level etc. Is Kyle Beach playing on Nash's line. How bout Jack Skille.

You guys are unbelievable
- mighty13duck

Guy, most of recoginze JT is better.

Pavel Bure might be the best example. Skate straight ahead, shoot score. Not much else to his game (aside from speed).
- jmatchett383

Bure actually wasn't a bad defensive player. He used his speed plenty of times to make a backcheck. He was just so incredibly fast, he didn't need to hang in the neutral zone to break free, he could do it while still being a part of the 5 man unit.