hall scored 50 points in 45 games (on pace for 91 points over 82 games) last season as a 20/21 year old and is the heart and soul of the oilers.

hall, in my mind, is a top 15 forward in the nhl for sure. but he's not YET better than rick nash. he might be within a year or 2 though.
- rangerdanger94

Like I said earlier, Hall definitely has the potential to be an elite scorer. But just like everyone holding off dubbing Stepan elite, from one solid shortened season stat line, I think I will do the same with Hall.

Both are close though, no question.

He can't, hence the sheer sh!t talk. Ladd is a very good player but he is not in the same class as Nash. He was on an island, for the majority of his career and yet he has managed to score over 300 goals before the age of 30.

Some people are funny when it comes to criticizing this player.
- MidnightMarauder

Facts? I'm looking at Nash's career numbers..? You can look at them too. And the Ladd to Nash comparison you guys CLEARLY don't get. Like I said, take goal-scoring out of the equation and who is a better player? Really, think about it.... As I stated in another post, AS OF RIGHT NOW, Ladd is better player, using this past year a bit as a sample size, Ladd is NO DOUBT a better overall player. Using the sample size of a career to look on, then CLEARRRRRRLY Nash is the better player. Without question. But in this small-same size I'm talking about, the past season or so, Ladd is a better overall player.

He can't, hence the sheer sh!t talk. Ladd is a very good player but he is not in the same class as Nash. He was on an island, for the majority of his career and yet he has managed to score over 300 goals before the age of 30.

Some people are funny when it comes to criticizing this player.
- MidnightMarauder

Andrew Ladd has a CAREER total of 138 goals, Nash has scored 116 since 2009-10. in that same time span, Heatley has 100 and Ladd has 92.

Ok, you're right in a sense. Right now, no, Hall or Eberle aren't better than Nash. I think their overall pure hockey talent is better, I think their ceilings are better, but Nash is a player who has been around and knows the game better than those two. I'm sure, as a result of this, Nash knows how to more efficiently exert himself in a game, leverage his hockey skills better than them, and probably anticipates and sees the game better. So in this sense, you're entirely right.
- Flyers_V88

i get what your saying. nash isn't a patrice bergeron or a jonathon toews in the defensive zone (but again, he's a winger, so he doesn't have to be) and he hasn't put up over 80 points in his career, but you have to admit that the lack of talent he's played with his entire career is part of that problem. if he was playing with JT (who turned matt moulson into a 30 goal scorer multiple times), crosby (why turned kunitz and dupuis into 1st line wingers), toews or kane or any other amazing playmaking center, rick nash would put up over 100 points.

he's in a better situation now in NY, but the rangers still don't have a center that can be mentioned in the same conversation as malkin, crosby, tavares, toews, etc.

but trust me, if he was playing with any of those guys, he would score close to 120 points, if not more.

Facts? I'm looking at Nash's career numbers..? You can look at them too. And the Ladd to Nash comparison you guys CLEARLY don't get. Like I said, take goal-scoring out of the equation and who is a better player? Really, think about it.... As I stated in another post, AS OF RIGHT NOW, Ladd is better player, using this past year a bit as a sample size, Ladd is NO DOUBT a better overall player. Using the sample size of a career to look on, then CLEARRRRRRLY Nash is the better player. Without question. But in this small-same size I'm talking about, the past season or so, Ladd is a better overall player.
- Flyers_V88

taking goal scoring out of the equation, nash is still bigger, more powerful, has better vision, is a better passer, is a better skater, has better hands, has more talent, and has more skill than ladd. but ladd can play good defense.

Andrew Ladd has a CAREER total of 138 goals, Nash has scored 116 since 2009-10. in that same time span, Heatley has 100 and Ladd has 92.
- blacksheep1

Ok this is getting redundant. Yes, Nash is the better goal-scorer, I agree? I haven't said once that Nash isn't a good goal-scorer. I will even say that in terms of a specific area of Nash's game, his goal scoring ability is the only elite thing about him. But as overall player packages come, Ladd has more to offer and is a better leader.

taking goal scoring out of the equation, nash is still bigger, more powerful, has better vision, is a better passer, is a better skater, has better hands, has more talent, and has more skill than ladd. but ladd can play good defense.
- rangerdanger94

You're right. Nash's has better hockey tools to work with, more fluid and flashy.

Ok this is getting redundant. Yes, Nash is the better goal-scorer, I agree? I haven't said once that Nash isn't a good goal-scorer. I will even say that in terms of a specific area of Nash's game, his goal scoring ability is the only elite thing about him. But as overall player packages come, Ladd has more to offer and is a better leader.
- Flyers_V88

only thing ladd has more to offer than nash is blocking shots.

Facts? I'm looking at Nash's career numbers..? You can look at them too. And the Ladd to Nash comparison you guys CLEARLY don't get. Like I said, take goal-scoring out of the equation and who is a better player? Really, think about it.... As I stated in another post, AS OF RIGHT NOW, Ladd is better player, using this past year a bit as a sample size, Ladd is NO DOUBT a better overall player. Using the sample size of a career to look on, then CLEARRRRRRLY Nash is the better player. Without question. But in this small-same size I'm talking about, the past season or so, Ladd is a better overall player.
- Flyers_V88

Nash assists per game, .39. Ladd's assist per game. .31. Nash PP goals per .12, Ladd's is .04. Nash SH goals per game is .02, Ladd's is .003. Nash has better numbre in every aspect of the game. Ladd has better plus/minus. So Ladd has played on two cup teams and still can't measure up to Nash.

Good post. I like where this is going. So yeah, lets first define what makes an elite player? I'll personally state that there is no magic formula or set of criteria, but that it's a combination of things. I think people mis-took what I said earlier. Lets get this straight: Rick Nash is an all-star. He is a good player and has been for time. He can score with the best of them. I was just suggesting that he isn't elite, doesn't mean he's bad or should be seen as less? Truly, I think there are only maybe 10 players in the league that are elite superstars... Not every team has one.

An elite player should be able to produce offensively where approaching the 100-point mark is realistic or projected. Second, I think an elite player should somewhat defensively responsible and play a a decent two-way game (some stars don't and I realize this, but their talent in another area usually off-sets this). Also, I think that the elite player averages at LEAST 75 points a season, not high 50s.... Just because you can score 30 goals a year consistently, doesn't mean you're an elite player?
- Flyers_V88

Personally, I think any player that excels in the sport in skills that are considered in the top 10% of the league is Elite. Now, I also think that the player does not need to excel in ALL areas. For example, to properly "classify" Nash, you would call him an Elite POWER FORWARD. Thats actually what the true term would be. You wouldn't call him and all around Elite Player (thats Datsyuk). You wouldn't call him and Elite Playmaker (thats Crosby but he's also much more I know), you wouldn't call Nash and Elite Sniper (thats Stamkos). So call it correctly, Nash is an Elite Power Forward because by definition, he is definitely in the top 10% in players that are Big, tough to knock off the puck, uses his size to drive to the net, skilled with the puck, with a scoring touch. Thats basically was a power foward is. So when people group all of these different "Elite" players together, they are really just grouping. Is Nash an Elite all around player? Absolutely not. But neither is Ovie, Stammer, Tavares, Kane. You could argue that outside of Datsyuk, Toews, and maybe Crosby, there aren't any others.

‏@NYP_Brooksie 11m
Stepan contract believed approximately $6.2M,

‏@NYP_Brooksie 11m
Stepan contract believed approximately $6.2M,
- blacksheep1

I guess Sather won this time around.

How about those outside this thread that said Sather's comments would hamper signing Stepan, well I guess jedi mind tricks work over TV as well

Nash is and will be a top 5 winger this season, the fact he is a Ranger is the one and only reason these trolls hvae to offer any argument, pay no mind as both the defenseless Flyers and Isles fight for 8th.

Facts? I'm looking at Nash's career numbers..? You can look at them too. And the Ladd to Nash comparison you guys CLEARLY don't get. Like I said, take goal-scoring out of the equation and who is a better player? Really, think about it.... As I stated in another post, AS OF RIGHT NOW, Ladd is better player, using this past year a bit as a sample size, Ladd is NO DOUBT a better overall player. Using the sample size of a career to look on, then CLEARRRRRRLY Nash is the better player. Without question. But in this small-same size I'm talking about, the past season or so, Ladd is a better overall player.
- Flyers_V88

Because a player has a better year than the one being criticized doesn't mean said player is better than criticized player on the whole.

Never said Ladd wasn't good because I think he is very good. But, all things equal, Nash over Ladd anyday of the week and twice on Sunday.

I guess Sather won this time around.
- mighty13duck

When it comes to RFA contracts, Sather always wins.

When it comes to RFA contracts, Sather always wins.
- MidnightMarauder

yup.

How about those outside this thread that said Sather's comments would hamper signing Stepan, well I guess jedi mind tricks work over TV as well

Nash is and will be a top 5 winger this season, the fact he is a Ranger is the one and only reason these trolls hvae to offer any argument, pay no mind as both the defenseless Flyers and Isles fight for 8th.
- cranford93

I think it had more to do with Stepan not wanting to be the only NHL player left holding out. Also had something to do with Fransen only getting 2M and Kadri getting 2.8M in their short term bridge deals.

When it comes to RFA contracts, Sather always wins.
- MidnightMarauder

Maybe someone should tell him all Free agents are restricted, at his old age his senial ass might just buy it.

I guess Sather won this time around.
- mighty13duck

Yeah, I guess so. Waive power and the Raanger have enough cap space to maneuver. If they put Hags on LTIR, Fast or Lindberg can start the year with the Rangers.

Maybe someone should tell him all Free agents are restricted, at his old age his senial ass might just buy it.
- cranford93

Sather is lights out in handling his own players and trades. UFAs, well, that is a completely different sory. Although, I like what he did this summer, in signing Pouliot and Moore to reasonable deals.

Because a player has a better year than the one being criticized doesn't mean said player is better than criticized player on the whole.

Never said Ladd wasn't good because I think he is very good. But, all things equal, Nash over Ladd anyday of the week and twice on Sunday.
- MidnightMarauder

Its so hard to say that without so many variables. We are talking about a hockey TEAM. I wouldn't go as far as to say Nash over Ladd anyday, it depends on the type of player a team needs. Nash fills a need for a Power Forward on the Wing that can bring the puck to the net. Ladd fills a need for a good defensive 2 way Center that can win you faceoffs and backcheck. They are both Elite in their own ways.

Yeah, I guess so. Waive power and the Raanger have enough cap space to maneuver. If they put Hags on LTIR, Fast or Lindberg can start the year with the Rangers.
- blacksheep1

I think Hrivik has a better shot at starting the season here than Lindbergh. The latter has tailed off in recent exhibition play. Hrivik and Fast have looked better than him lately.

Here's a very interesting stat line, no names but can we guess who they were

48 18 26 44 +25

48 28 19 47 -2

Sather is lights out in handling his own players and trades. UFAs, well, that is a completely different sory. Although, I like what he did this summer, in signing Pouliot and Moore to reasonable deals.
- MidnightMarauder

That's becaue he went to his wallet and found it empty

Its so hard to say that without so many variables. We are talking about a hockey TEAM. I wouldn't go as far as to say Nash over Ladd anyday, it depends on the type of player a team needs. Nash fills a need for a Power Forward on the Wing that can bring the puck to the net. Ladd fills a need for a good defensive 2 way Center that can win you faceoffs and backcheck. They are both Elite in their own ways.
- xcheckmajor

Right, but seeing that the Rangers already have a smaller version of Ladd with their captain, the Rangers need a highly skilled finisher more than they would need another solid two way winger.

Hence the reason I would take Nash any day over Ladd.