Real_ESPNLeBrun: Told the Stepan deal is done with Rangers...

Nothing like getting back into hockeybuzz with a Ladd is better than Nash topic lol

That's not very impressive
- mighty13duck

Again, I never said he doesn't have moves or isn't a good player? Clearly the man can snipe with the best of them and has a bevy of highlight goals. My point is that he is NOT in the upper-elite class. I'm sorry, scoring just about 30 goals a year and under 60 points, despite his highlight goals every now and again, does not constitute him being mentioned with the likes of Tavares, Crosby, Malkin, Stamkos, OV, St. Louis, etc....

He is a great player and is a great goal-scorer, that's all? Not saying he is bad or isn't worthy of an Olympic selection or All-Star selections, just seems people put him on this platter of God-like proportions, when in reality you look at his numbers and they're nothing special at all. And for the person who said Hank is their franchise player, you're right. He is.

That was simply amazing. Some of the best hands for a big man. I don't get why we are comparing Andrew Ladd to Nash? I honestly have seen Ladd play so many times this past season for Winnipeg and you can't even draw parallels IMO.
- adwolf130

Because people are stupid and love to throw sh!t on a wall to see if it sticks. Ladd is a good player but he is not better than Nash.

Nash is a top ten overall winger in this league, period.

Again, I never said he doesn't have moves or isn't a good player? Clearly the man can snipe with the best of them and has a bevy of highlight goals. My point is that he is NOT in the upper-elite class. I'm sorry, scoring just about 30 goals a year and under 60 points, despite his highlight goals every now and again, does not constitute him being mentioned with the likes of Tavares, Crosby, Malkin, Stamkos, OV, St. Louis, etc....
He is a great player and is a great goal-scorer, that's all? Not saying he is bad or isn't worthy of an Olympic selection or All-Star selections, just seems people put him on this platter of God-like proportions, when in reality you look at his numbers and they're nothing special at all. And for the person who said Hank is their franchise player, you're right. He is.
- Flyers_V88

I agree with you....

Nothing like getting back into hockeybuzz with a Ladd is better than Nash topic lol

- NYRangers1124

As of right now, he is a better overall player? How can you argue otherwise? Really... Take out goal-scoring in the equation and Ladd is a better overall player? I don't think that's outlandish to claim. And the KEY word is AS OF RIGHT NOW, not potential or ceiling or any poop, as of RIGHT NOW.

I agree with some points because he compiled points from other fan bases to make his post. Its sarcasm because he doesn't agree with it. People are attacking the blogger when he thinks complete otherwise of what he said.
- mighty13duck

yea i was being sarcastic lol. i took the ridiculous arguments of fans of other teams and exaggerated them while hinting at why they're wrong. i'm not saying that rangers are the favorite to win the cup, but i think the expectation for them to make the playoffs isn't unfounded and i think that this roster IS capable of winning the stanley cup if they play the way they can.

with a top 3 defense in the league and a top 2 goalie in the league, it's up to the offense under AV to take that next step and hopefully give the rangers enough goal support to go all the way. we'll see if it happens, but i don't think it's lunatic to have some hope that it could.

I agree with you....
- mighty13duck

Thanks man haha. I know the topics on here are hotly contested, especially involving fans and their respective teams, but I just wish people would actually look at the numbers and see what I'm saying isn't exactly crazy or out of this world? It's most true? lol. But thanks again haha.

Flyers_V88, the question is how do YOU define ELITE and Franchise player? Because I can think of plenty of Elite Franchise players that aren't 2 way players, and plenty of 2 way players that aren't Elite Franchise players. Ryan Callahan, the best 2 way forward on the Rangers isn't exactly considered Elite. Neither is Dustin Brown, Ryan Kesler, etc... John Tavares IS Elite and a Franchise player but he does nothing in the defensive zone, doesn't kill penalties, not the best shot blocker either. So Really, why are you singling out Nash and calling him a fake? How about the fact that NO OTHER PLAYER IN THE NHL HAS MORE GOALS THAT RICK NASH OVER THE COMBINED COURSE OF THE PAST 6 YEARS? And he did it quietly on the worst team in the league, THATs whats so surprising when you hear that stat. Nash also scored at around 75pt pace last season in a very well accepted "bad" year for the Rangers where nothing clicked, offense was non existent, and the other 2 big players didn't show up (Richards & Gabby). How many goals do you think Neal would have had if Crosby AND Malkin had seasons like Richards and Gabby? If Neal walked away with 40 goals and 40 assists when Crosby and Malkin end up with only 50pts. each, I think you praise Neal as amazing. But Nash, no, he's just still overrated.

Taylor Hall...now? Listen, Hall could very well be a premiere scorer in this league and for a long time but to date he has shown nothing to suggest he is better than Nash...nothing.
- MidnightMarauder

EVery Oilers fan has Hall above JT Nash and everybody else not named Crosby or Malkin

no hes not. Hank is
- mighty13duck

Impossible to compare elite centers to high scoring power forwards.

Crosby is in a class by himself; players like Malkin, Tavares, Giroux, Datsyuk, Toews etc. being clearly behind him.

As far as wingers go, Nash can hang with the best of the best. There really is no doubt in my mind about that.

I'll assume you know that this was done tongue in cheek, right?
- MidnightMarauder

I apologize for not attaching the sarcasm button that you needed

Again, I never said he doesn't have moves or isn't a good player? Clearly the man can snipe with the best of them and has a bevy of highlight goals. My point is that he is NOT in the upper-elite class. I'm sorry, scoring just about 30 goals a year and under 60 points, despite his highlight goals every now and again, does not constitute him being mentioned with the likes of Tavares, Crosby, Malkin, Stamkos, OV, St. Louis, etc....

He is a great player and is a great goal-scorer, that's all? Not saying he is bad or isn't worthy of an Olympic selection or All-Star selections, just seems people put him on this platter of God-like proportions, when in reality you look at his numbers and they're nothing special at all. And for the person who said Hank is their franchise player, you're right. He is.
- Flyers_V88

But his numberss are better than Ladd's and Heatley, especially since he left the sens.

As of right now, he is a better overall player? How can you argue otherwise? Really... Take out goal-scoring in the equation and Ladd is a better overall player? I don't think that's outlandish to claim. And the KEY word is AS OF RIGHT NOW, not potential or ceiling or any poop, as of RIGHT NOW.
- Flyers_V88

Ladd has scored 30 goals or more a whopping two times in his career. Ladd is a very good player but he is not as good as Nash, sorry.

Impossible to compare elite centers to high scoring power forwards.

Crosby is in a class by himself; players like Malkin, Tavares, Giroux, Datsyuk, Toews etc. being clearly behind him.

As far as wingers go, Nash can hang with the best of the best. There really is no doubt in my mind about that.
- MidnightMarauder

When you hear elite players you think of Crosby, Stamkos, JT Ovi, Kane, Toews and Hank. They are the tier ones. Crosby is far an away the best of all but his injuries keep him in that class.

As of right now, he is a better overall player? How can you argue otherwise? Really... Take out goal-scoring in the equation and Ladd is a better overall player? I don't think that's outlandish to claim. And the KEY word is AS OF RIGHT NOW, not potential or ceiling or any poop, as of RIGHT NOW.
- Flyers_V88

Please provide numbers, I'd provide numbers and you have yet to respond. Provide facts please.

I agree with you....
- mighty13duck

my top 15 forwards in the nhl more or less in order:
Crosby
Toews
Stamkos
Ovechkin
Malkin
Datsyuk (would be 3 if it wasn't for age)
Tavares
Patty Kane
Giroux
Eric Staal
Rick Nash
Parise
Taylor Hall
Getzlaf
St. Louis

EVery Oilers fan has Hall above JT Nash and everybody else not named Crosby or Malkin
- mighty13duck

Oilers fans are out of their minds to think that Hall is one of the better wingers in the league. Can he be? Sure. Is he currently? Nope.

Ahhh...Stepan has resigned...done deal...as Nash does a few cartwheels singing:

"I can see clearly now that the rain is gone. It's gonna be nice, bright sun shining day!"

As of right now, he is a better overall player? How can you argue otherwise? Really... Take out goal-scoring in the equation and Ladd is a better overall player? I don't think that's outlandish to claim. And the KEY word is AS OF RIGHT NOW, not potential or ceiling or any poop, as of RIGHT NOW.
- Flyers_V88

outlandish? no, not like anyone is saying ladd is a scrub. just in my opinion he's not better than nash, end of story.

This thread is quickly approaching danger territory.
- B2B76

It's not the Penguins, so I'm on my best behavior.

When you hear elite players you think of Crosby, Stamkos, JT Ovi, Kane, Toews and Hank. They are the tier ones. Crosby is far an away the best of all but his injuries keep him in that class.
- mighty13duck

Agreed, nobody touches Crosby when healthy though, nobody. Tavares is filthy, likely will win a scoring title or two before he retires. But at his best he is not Crosby.

It kills me to admit that he is the best but it would be nonsensical for me to deny that he is the greatest player in this modern era.

Oilers fans are out of their minds to think that Hall is one of the better wingers in the league. Can he be? Sure. Is he currently? Nope.
- MidnightMarauder

hall scored 50 points in 45 games (on pace for 91 points over 82 games) last season as a 20/21 year old and is the heart and soul of the oilers.

hall, in my mind, is a top 15 forward in the nhl for sure. but he's not YET better than rick nash. he might be within a year or 2 though.

Flyers_V88, the question is how do YOU define ELITE and Franchise player? Because I can think of plenty of Elite Franchise players that aren't 2 way players, and plenty of 2 way players that aren't Elite Franchise players. Ryan Callahan, the best 2 way forward on the Rangers isn't exactly considered Elite. Neither is Dustin Brown, Ryan Kesler, etc... John Tavares IS Elite and a Franchise player but he does nothing in the defensive zone, doesn't kill penalties, not the best shot blocker either. So Really, why are you singling out Nash and calling him a fake? How about the fact that NO OTHER PLAYER IN THE NHL HAS MORE GOALS THAT RICK NASH OVER THE COMBINED COURSE OF THE PAST 6 YEARS? And he did it quietly on the worst team in the league, THATs whats so surprising when you hear that stat. Nash also scored at around 75pt pace last season in a very well accepted "bad" year for the Rangers where nothing clicked, offense was non existent, and the other 2 big players didn't show up (Richards & Gabby). How many goals do you think Neal would have had if Crosby AND Malkin had seasons like Richards and Gabby? If Neal walked away with 40 goals and 40 assists when Crosby and Malkin end up with only 50pts. each, I think you praise Neal as amazing. But Nash, no, he's just still overrated.
- xcheckmajor

Good post. I like where this is going. So yeah, lets first define what makes an elite player? I'll personally state that there is no magic formula or set of criteria, but that it's a combination of things. I think people mis-took what I said earlier. Lets get this straight: Rick Nash is an all-star. He is a good player and has been for time. He can score with the best of them. I was just suggesting that he isn't elite, doesn't mean he's bad or should be seen as less? Truly, I think there are only maybe 10 players in the league that are elite superstars... Not every team has one.

An elite player should be able to produce offensively where approaching the 100-point mark is realistic or projected. Second, I think an elite player should somewhat defensively responsible and play a a decent two-way game (some stars don't and I realize this, but their talent in another area usually off-sets this). Also, I think that the elite player averages at LEAST 75 points a season, not high 50s.... Just because you can score 30 goals a year consistently, doesn't mean you're an elite player?

Please provide numbers, I'd provide numbers and you have yet to respond. Provide facts please.
- blacksheep1

He can't, hence the sheer sh!t talk. Ladd is a very good player but he is not in the same class as Nash. He was on an island, for the majority of his career and yet he has managed to score over 300 goals before the age of 30.

Some people are funny when it comes to criticizing this player.

hall scored 50 points in 45 games (on pace for 91 points over 82 games) last season as a 20/21 year old and is the heart and soul of the oilers.

hall, in my mind, is a top 15 forward in the nhl for sure. but he's not YET better than rick nash. he might be within a year or 2 though.
- rangerdanger94

Ok, you're right in a sense. Right now, no, Hall or Eberle aren't better than Nash. I think their overall pure hockey talent is better, I think their ceilings are better, but Nash is a player who has been around and knows the game better than those two. I'm sure, as a result of this, Nash knows how to more efficiently exert himself in a game, leverage his hockey skills better than them, and probably anticipates and sees the game better. So in this sense, you're entirely right.