Kiprusoff had NHL experience, and was actually somewhat touted...Ramo on the otherhand, and Berra, they're nowhere near close to Kiprusoff. The Flames knew what they were getting in Kiprusoff, they traded a 2nd....not exactly a nobody. As a flames fan, hypothetically, what would you offer up in a trade for Reimer.
- ThePresident

Ramo has some strong numbers coming with him from overseas, though it would be foolish to think they will certainly translate as thats very difficult to assess. Point is, its very hard to say exactly what the Flames have between the pipes for atleast another year where they would have a better sample size for Ramo and Berra and at that point they could better decide.

Now, in terms of looking at the possibility of acquiring Reimer, it will depend on how he plays this year. Does he get beat out by Bernier and play 30 or less games? Or does he hold his own and come close to splitting if not stealing games from Bernier. If it's the former then perhaps the Flames could shell up a pick or prospect in addition to a steady vet like MacDonald. If its the latter then he's going to likely cost more than the Flames are prepared to pay during a rebuild.

And again, this would all be contingent on one of Ramo, Berra, Ortio, Broissoit not showing promise.

Another cave. When are these agents going to figure out that the team holds the leverage on non-arb RFAs and that's just the way it is. Sign the bridge, kick ass, cash in. No more of this holding out BS, it doesn't work.
- 1979AD

Here, here Brosephine. Just (frank)s up the pre-season/camp chemistry and causes ill-will.

here's my top 4

Phanuef, Gunnarson
Franson, Ranger

i see good things coming
- bobbyisno1

Ranger played a fair bit with Gardiner in the AHL, even on the right side. Carlyle seems to love the Fraser - Franson Combo.

Gunnarsson - Phaneuf
Gardiner - Ranger
Fraser - Franson
*Liles (If traded insert Brennan)

hopefully the top d pairing only plays a max of 23-24 mins, and the 2nd and 3rd pairings can evenly split the remaining time.

Franson at this point in time is better than Gardiner, offensively and defensively
- bobbyisno1

Stats have proved otherwise. Which is kind of a sad testament to how "good" Franson really is in his own end.

Offensively, the jury is out. Franson has had one good offensive half season. That's seriously it. Before this year, he hasn't done (frank) all anywhere.

Gardiner is young and I'll expect him to get better than Franson's best last year. But like i said. We shall see.

Ramo has some strong numbers coming with him from overseas, though it would be foolish to think they will certainly translate as thats very difficult to assess. Point is, its very hard to say exactly what the Flames have between the pipes for atleast another year where they would have a better sample size for Ramo and Berra and at that point they could better decide.

Now, in terms of looking at the possibility of acquiring Reimer, it will depend on how he plays this year. Does he get beat out by Bernier and play 30 or less games? Or does he hold his own and come close to splitting if not stealing games from Bernier. If it's the latter then perhaps the Flames could shell up a pick or prospect in addition to a steady vet like MacDonald. If its the latter then he's going to likely cost more than the Flames are prepared to pay during a rebuild.

And again, this would all be contingent on one of Ramo, Berra, Ortio, Broissoit not showing promise.
- Colin Dambrauskas

If they're that close in performance this year, I'd want the same kind of deal coming the other way as we paid for Bernier.

I like that.

Phaneuf, Gunnar
Gards, Ranger

for me.
But I could certainly deal with yours. As long as Gunnar is there and Franson isnt in the top pairing, I'd be okay.
But for yours, I still think Franson is an unknown to play more minutes against better players. Give him a shot, but I'm not convinced he can do it.
- UsernameUnknown

I don't get how you think Gardiner should be there and not Franson????

Why? He wasn't ahead of him last year.

Franson looks like Lidstrom when it comes to D compared to Gardiner.

I don't think you watch leaf games, you're in here (frank)ing with us
I played hockey my whole life, as I am sure a lot of us in here have....Gardiner is a defensive liability at this point in his career..sure he can make things happen, but when hemmed in his own end...he's a light weight FOR SURE.

If they continue to be sheltered, and handed prime scoring opportunities, rather than tasked with shutting down top lines... maybe Franson will.
- Feeling Glucky?

The Leafs gave up more shots than all but 2 teams last year.

I don't think Dion's making as great a Defensive impact as we'd like to think.

Also, the goaltending should be a lot more reliable this year, so there's no reason to worry about our goals against.

as long as our special teams hold up and we're healthy we should be ok

I love that post.

He's a 3rd liner, terrible signing, and him getting suspended will cost the Leafs points.


- Feeling Glucky?

Complete nonsense.

Nope, he meant top 4 top 4.
He calls Gunnar is needless. I call him insane.

I agree with holding out for final opinions. It's way too murky. But i know where i stand until things change. I'm always willing to admit my wrongs and change views. Prove me wrong Fringsoon
- UsernameUnknown

Various guys will be broken throughout the year anyway. They'll all get a good amount of games in. Heck...dress 7 D a few games...you know the ones where Super Bozak takes over up front, and RC double shifts him.

Stats have proved otherwise. Which is kind of a sad testament to how "good" Franson really is in his own end.

Offensively, the jury is out. Franson has had one good offensive half season. That's seriously it. Before this year, he hasn't done (frank) all anywhere.

Gardiner is young and I'll expect him to get better than Franson's best last year. But like i said. We shall see.
- UsernameUnknown

how have stats proven otherwise, Franson is a plus player. is Gardiner

Ranger played a fair bit with Gardiner in the AHL, even on the right side. Carlyle seems to love the Fraser - Franson Combo.

Gunnarsson - Phaneuf
Gardiner - Ranger
Fraser - Franson
*Liles (If traded insert Brennan)

hopefully the top d pairing only plays a max of 23-24 mins, and the 2nd and 3rd pairings can evenly split the remaining time.
- GardinerExpress

I honestly see Gardiner/Ranger as the 5/6 pairing; that's a pairing that's going to see PP time and weak opposition and rightly so.

The Leafs gave up more shots than all but 2 teams last year.

I don't think Dion's making as great a Defensive impact as we'd like to think.

Also, the goaltending should be a lot more reliable this year, so there's no reason to worry about our goals against.

as long as our special teams hold up and we're healthy we should be ok
- AngryWhiteMale

wanna go back to the years where we outshot almost every team under Wilson, and missed the playoffs every year?

Pretty good predictions.
http://www.thehockeynews....s-in-each-conference.html

Leafs predicted to finish 6th
"6. Toronto. Maple Leafs brass took the ample cap space they had this off-season and used virtually all of it to get tougher and deeper in goal. As hockey’s burgeoning advanced statistics community frequently points out, there’s a fair chance last season could have been an anomaly and a regression to the mean is imminent for the Buds this year. But they do deserve credit for Toronto’s fifth-place finish in the Eastern Conference in 2012-13; and I feel like the arrival of Jonathan Bernier is good for both he and James Reimer. Their blueline will be better with Paul Ranger around, but the guy I like to really wow people is James van Riemsdyk. Toronto has more than enough options on offense, but it’s how their defense holds up that will determine if the Leafs make the playoffs two years in a row for the first time in a decade."

Stats have proved otherwise. Which is kind of a sad testament to how "good" Franson really is in his own end.

Offensively, the jury is out. Franson has had one good offensive half season. That's seriously it. Before this year, he hasn't done (frank) all anywhere.

Gardiner is young and I'll expect him to get better than Franson's best last year. But like i said. We shall see.
- UsernameUnknown

If you don't see that Franson has always been good offensively, you must not know that he has in fact played hockey before last season. Take a look at his stats buddy.

If they're that close in performance this year, I'd want the same kind of deal coming the other way as we paid for Bernier.
- gravyface

Which would be fair, though I think the Leafs would have more interest in a MacDonald player(proven backup) + pick/prosect than another unproven goalie like Berra for instance. Though Berra could exceed expections this year, no one really knows.

I honestly see Gardiner/Ranger as the 5/6 pairing; that's a line that's going to see PP time and weak opposition and rightly so.
- gravyface

Regardless, they are likely gonna see 17-18 mins a game.
We had Fraser (17 mins) and Franson (19 mins) as the 5-6 D last year mostly.

I watched Ranger a fair bit with the marlies last year, I think he is gonna be a solid 2 way d-man and earn Carlyle's trust very quickly.

Which would be fair, though I think the Leafs would have more interest in a MacDonald player(proven backup) + pick/prosect than another unproven goalie like Berra for instance. Though Berra could exceed expections this year, no one really knows.
- Colin Dambrauskas

I'd want that 1st overall pick one can dream.

The Leafs gave up more shots than all but 2 teams last year.

I don't think Dion's making as great a Defensive impact as we'd like to think.

Also, the goaltending should be a lot more reliable this year, so there's no reason to worry about our goals against.

as long as our special teams hold up and we're healthy we should be ok
- AngryWhiteMale

Yea, we're giving up a lot of shots.

A lot of low-quality shots... I don't care if a team takes 50 shots, if they get 0 scoring opportunities out of them.

how have stats proven otherwise, Franson is a plus player. is Gardiner
- bobbyisno1

I don't know who posted it, nor where i can even find it

But Gardiner has one of the lowest GA/TOI and Franson has the highest.

Franson is a plus player cuz he owned on the PP, which i will fully acknowledge

wanna go back to the years where we outshot almost every team under Wilson, and missed the playoffs every year?
- GardinerExpress

Yeah, we had the likes of Toskala in net.

We won't be giving up a boatload this year, esp. if the PK holds up like it did last year.

We have more options on offense than we used to. Back when Wilson was in charge Kessel was the only guy who could score, which became a problem because he was easier to defend. His new-found ability to pass has made other plays around him better, and opened up more space for Phil himself as he's not double teamed.

We also have bigger bodies in JVR and Clarkson, who can cause fits around opponents nets.

And then there's Kadri, Loops etc. We have the talent now that we didn't have.

Start season start so OEL can win the Norris.

how have stats proven otherwise, Franson is a plus player. is Gardiner
- bobbyisno1

I think a few guys here (including Dozzer if I can remember?) suggest Gardiner becomes an asset to trade away once Rielly makes it. How many PMD's can you have and one of them is fairly one dimensional at this point in his career.

I like that.

Phaneuf, Gunnar
Gards, Ranger

for me.
But I could certainly deal with yours. As long as Gunnar is there and Franson isnt in the top pairing, I'd be okay.
But for yours, I still think Franson is an unknown to play more minutes against better players. Give him a shot, but I'm not convinced he can do it.
- UsernameUnknown

Franson averaged 23min per game in the playoffs. I know its a small sample size but that does show that he can play more minutes against better players.

Pretty good predictions.
http://www.thehockeynews....s-in-each-conference.html

Leafs predicted to finish 6th

- IrishRage

Not sure how crazy I am about Ottawa this year. On one hand, they have one of the best goalie tandems in the league. They replaced Alfredsson with Ryan, but lost Silferberg, who I think will be a star.

That said, I think they risk lacking secondary scoring. A guy like Turris really relied on Alfie creating chances and unless Karlsson stays healthy, the secondary scoring just isn't there. They may revert back into a one-line team from years ago. The Karlsson health factor is the big one though, with him out there 25 mins a night he can make an average 2nd line look very productive.

Pretty good predictions.
http://www.thehockeynews....s-in-each-conference.html

Leafs predicted to finish 6th
"6. Toronto. Maple Leafs brass took the ample cap space they had this off-season and used virtually all of it to get tougher and deeper in goal. As hockey’s burgeoning advanced statistics community frequently points out, there’s a fair chance last season could have been an anomaly and a regression to the mean is imminent for the Buds this year. But they do deserve credit for Toronto’s fifth-place finish in the Eastern Conference in 2012-13; and I feel like the arrival of Jonathan Bernier is good for both he and James Reimer. Their blueline will be better with Paul Ranger around, but the guy I like to really wow people is James van Riemsdyk. Toronto has more than enough options on offense, but it’s how their defense holds up that will determine if the Leafs make the playoffs two years in a row for the first time in a decade."
- IrishRage

I can't see the sens getting 3rd. I know they had injuries and all that but Anderson played way outta his league last year (even though he looked pretty ordinary against us)

Also I think any team that has Ovechkin is gonna make the playoffs