If Fosco is reading right now he is laughing out loud at me. We had this exact misunderstanding about Gillis sharing some of his success. It was cleared up quickly thank god...

Ok, maybe failure was the wrong word. I'm just saying that because someone else "built it" doesn't mean that the person who inherited hasn't also done a good job with the same people.

Having said that, there is a lot (especially lately) that is less than desirable as well.

I'm not for or against Gillis, it was just that I don't buy the "B
Burke built it Gillis is a shmo" point of view.
- 1970vintage

I think both guys have done a good job in all honesty. Burke did some great things but his biggest failure wasnt addressing the Goalie situation. Nonis accomplished that with LU but couldnt get over the hump. Gillis came in and brought in key guys like Erhoff and humhuis but not much else other than resign the key players for great contracts. For his contract or cap management he has done a terrific job which I give him full credit for. I do think his biggest mistake is letting Erhoff go. Our team has never looked the same since we lost him.

Fantastic analysis on Erhoff. I provided the link and he would have been worth every penny.

http://canucksarmy.com/20...d-probably-win-the-norris

In saying all that I am not a gillis fan and if the nucks fail again this yr I would like to see some new blood.

Again, you are misrepresenting what I've said. I never claimed any one GM built any team alone. People are arguing with me who's actually claiming other GM's can share the credit. I *asked* how much of it is Gillis????... I also admitted Gillis has added depth and that this team will shape up next season if he's still here or not.... debunking the tone of the replies coming my way. I see other posters on here saying Gillis built this team and Nonis built that team... not me... I also see someone saying this team wont move forward with Gillis...not me... For such a small thread I dont see how it can be so confusing who said what.... people are debating a pre conceived argument against without reading....

- boonerbuck

Fair enough.

Ok, maybe failure was the wrong word. I'm just saying that because someone else "built it" doesn't mean that the person who inherited hasn't also done a good job with the same people.

Having said that, there is a lot (especially lately) that is less than desirable as well.

I'm not for or against Gillis, it was just that I don't buy the "Burke built it Gillis is a shmo" point of view.
- 1970vintage

This is my argument on why it's time for him to go. AV also did what he did and took the team to the brink. As much as we all wanted AV to go that actually was him behind the bench during the Cup run and no, the team didn't coach itself. But AV's ideas or dare I say vision had its limits.

I'm not a Gillis hater by any means but if he can't be critiqued for staying the course with the team that Burke assembled (which was clearly the right move as results would show) then he should at least be critiqued for failing to do anything on his own since that run.

Gillis might have been the right guy with the right idea when he inherited a promising team, but I don't believe he's the right guy to rebuild that team and take them back to the top. Results are showing this to be correct. My opinion of course.

I think both guys have done a good job in all honesty. Burke did some great things but his biggest failure wasnt addressing the Goalie situation. Nonis accomplished that with LU but couldnt get over the hump. Gillis came in and brought in key guys like Erhoff and humhuis but not much else other than resign the key players for great contracts. For his contract or cap management he has done a terrific job which I give him full credit for. I do think his biggest mistake is letting Erhoff go. Our team has never looked the same since we lost him.

Fantastic analysis on Erhoff. I provided the link and he would have been worth every penny.

http://canucksarmy.com/20...d-probably-win-the-norris

In saying all that I am not a gillis fan and if the nucks fail again this yr I would like to see some new blood.
- Bluechip23

I think Gillis' biggest failure is Luongo, and this will be his downfall as GM in Vancouver. Would you have been happy having Ehrhoff on a 10 year contract? I'm glad they let him walk, and there are a few other players I wish he hadn't re-signed or traded at the deadline, but now they all have NTC...

I think both guys have done a good job in all honesty. Burke did some great things but his biggest failure wasnt addressing the Goalie situation. Nonis accomplished that with LU but couldnt get over the hump. Gillis came in and brought in key guys like Erhoff and humhuis but not much else other than resign the key players for great contracts. For his contract or cap management he has done a terrific job which I give him full credit for. I do think his biggest mistake is letting Erhoff go. Our team has never looked the same since we lost him.

Fantastic analysis on Erhoff. I provided the link and he would have been worth every penny.

http://canucksarmy.com/20...d-probably-win-the-norris

In saying all that I am not a gillis fan and if the nucks fail again this yr I would like to see some new blood.
- Bluechip23

I think what worked in Gillis' favour was timing. He hit the core's potential at the exact time and threw an injection of quality depth to it. This is what boiled Nonis' blood the most imo,,, he saw the window approaching and believed it would have been him adding that depth. Hard to feel sorry for Nonis who's NHL GM career consists of surviving Burke's firings twice and stepping up by default.... but also has had no responses to job applications in the NHL while on the open market. Gillis presented a resume and was hired in confidence. Nonis rejected on the market.

110%


If you're desperate he has a word press blog, google didn't find it, but someone posted a link in another thread... http://ianesplencanucks.wordpress.com
- 1970vintage

If I'm desperate?

I feel violated you even shared that link with me

easy there guy..wasn't it the nucks first W of the pre-season?
- GardinerExpress

Hey I heard the coyotes will appeal the loss. I mean a loss is cut and dried, no grey areas, but Clarkson is considering appealing his cut and dried outcome. What a pathetic orgainization

I think what worked in Gillis' favour was timing. He hit the core's potential at the exact time and threw an injection of quality depth to it. This is what boiled Nonis' blood the most imo,,, he saw the window approaching and believed it would have been him adding that depth. Hard to feel sorry for Nonis who's NHL GM career consists of surviving Burke's firings twice and stepping up by default.... but also has had no responses to job applications in the NHL while on the open market. Gillis presented a resume and was hired in confidence. Nonis rejected on the market.

- boonerbuck

If Toronto misses the playoffs does Nonis get fired? If Nonis gets fired, how long until he is the AGM in Calgary...

If I'm desperate?

I feel violated you even shared that link with me
- vancity787

Sorry, you sounded upset. Come to think about it, I'm going to have to clear my browser cache, if I type www.i its the first site that comes up in the search

I think Gillis' biggest failure is Luongo, and this will be his downfall as GM in Vancouver. Would you have been happy having Ehrhoff on a 10 year contract? I'm glad they let him walk, and there are a few other players I wish he hadn't re-signed or traded at the deadline, but now they all have NTC...
- 1970vintage

Maybe not a 10 yr deal but I would have happily paid him 6.5 mil a year for 6 years. His cap hit is only 4mil a year right now for the next 10. The lu situation is a disaster on its own and I am trying to block it out of my memory.

Maybe not a 10 yr deal but I would have happily paid him 6.5 mil a year for 6 years. His cap hit is only 4mil a year right now for the next 10. The lu situation is a disaster on its own and I am trying to block it out of my memory.
- Bluechip23

I read somewhere that Ehrhoff was offered the same deal that Bieksa got, bonus guaranteed money up front, 6 years. Less total dollars, but higher average per year and he gets to renegotiate a new contract before he retires. He thought he hit a home run in Buffalo...

I read somewhere that Ehrhoff was offered the same deal that Bieksa got, bonus guaranteed money up front, 6 years. Less total dollars, but higher average per year and he gets to renegotiate a new contract before he retires. He thought he hit a home run in Buffalo...
- 1970vintage

Thats a huge issue in my mind. I think Bieksa brings some great toughness to the team but he is not the same player Erhoff is. If we could have matched Buff's dollar amount we should have. I am not sure what our cap situation was at that time so maybe we couldn't so hard to fault MG there but if someone said pick Erhoff or Bieksa I dont think its close.

I think Gillis' biggest failure is Luongo, and this will be his downfall as GM in Vancouver. Would you have been happy having Ehrhoff on a 10 year contract? I'm glad they let him walk, and there are a few other players I wish he hadn't re-signed or traded at the deadline, but now they all have NTC...
- 1970vintage

I dont always believe that the contract a player gets from another team is the one that was needed to keep him. I believe it to be the opposite in most cases actually seeing that teams mostly have to outbid the team grossly to lure players away or put them out of reach. If Ehrhoff wanted more money than say Bieksa,,, he deserved it. Unfortunately, we had to see the effects on the Sedins and the PP to understand this after the fact.... the old hind sight cliche. They didnt make the same mistake with Edler... the bar set at Bieksa is a joke... if anything it should help the fringe D get raises.


So who knows how long of a term the offer would have been to keep him. Six years for Garrison wasnt it? That kind of offer probably would have worked..., he hit open market and Buff now has to scare away other GM's... blow away all those common six year offers..... mistake? No 10 year contract is a good idea imo... dont think the negotiating was one of Gillis matching Buff tho.... just Ehrhoff wanting more than the current 4 or 5 year Bieksa rubber stamp contract being thrown around til Edler broke the barrier.... slightly. Ehrhoff doesnt look like he's a fit for Buff but he was brilliant behind the Sedins and a horrible loss to our PP.

Thats a huge issue in my mind. I think Bieksa brings some great toughness to the team but he is not the same player Erhoff is. If we could have matched Buff's dollar amount we should have. I am not sure what our cap situation was at that time so maybe we couldn't so hard to fault MG there but if someone said pick Erhoff or Bieksa I dont think its close.
- Bluechip23

I think it was all about "buying into Gillis/Canucks culture", i.e. taking a discount so the team can be better. Who knows though.

I think it was all about "buying into Gillis/Canucks culture", i.e. taking a discount so the team can be better. Who knows though.
- 1970vintage

This was easy to see from the comments from the players. The Sedins and Bieksa said some comments about him that led me to believe that the standard contract wasnt enough. If he was expecting the offer length he took in Buffalo then he simply wanted off the Canucks. Six years is plenty for (frank) sakes.

I dont always believe that the contract a player gets from another team is the one that was needed to keep him. I believe it to be the opposite in most cases actually seeing that teams mostly have to outbid the team grossly to lure players away or put them out of reach. If Ehrhoff wanted more money than say Bieksa,,, he deserved it. Unfortunately, we had to see the effects on the Sedins and the PP to understand this after the fact.... the old hind sight cliche. They didnt make the same mistake with Edler... the bar set at Bieksa is a joke... if anything it should help the fringe D get raises.


So who knows how long of a term the offer would have been to keep him. Six years for Garrison wasnt it? That kind of offer probably would have worked..., he hit open market and Buff now has to scare away other GM's... blow away all those common six year offers..... mistake? No 10 year contract is a good idea imo... dont think the negotiating was one of Gillis matching Buff tho.... just Ehrhoff wanting more than the current 4 or 5 year Bieksa rubber stamp contract being thrown around til Edler broke the barrier.... slightly. Ehrhoff doesnt look like he's a fit for Buff but he was brilliant behind the Sedins and a horrible loss to our PP.
- boonerbuck

I might have my timing wrong, but I don't think that Bieksa signed "first". Gillis tried to get Ehrhoff to extend and couldn't, so he traded him to Philly or something, who traded him to Buffalo. I don't think Ehrhoff even made it to UFA, I'm pretty sure he signed with Buffalo before July 1. I think he (Ehrhoff) saw an opportunity to cash in and did, simple as that. Players want the security of long contracts, makes sense, their careers are short.

This was easy to see from the comments from the players. The Sedins and Bieksa said some comments about him that led me to believe that the standard contract wasnt enough. If he was expecting the offer length he took in Buffalo then he simply wanted off the Canucks. Six years is plenty for (frank) sakes.

- boonerbuck

And in six years (from then) I bet Ehrhoff is still capable of playing solid minutes, he could have gotten a nice sweetheart sendoff contract instead of playing for the $1m that he will earn in the last few years.

If Toronto misses the playoffs does Nonis get fired? If Nonis gets fired, how long until he is the AGM in Calgary...
- 1970vintage

I don't know... crazy.

Could you ever imagine Burke hiring Nonis ever again? That is comical... If I were Burke I wouldnt even answer Nonis' calls again. Burke and Nonis playing good cop bad cop always ends up with the good cop being rewarded with bad cops job.

I don't know... crazy.

Could you ever imagine Burke hiring Nonis ever again? That is comical... If I were Burke I wouldnt even answer Nonis' calls again. Burke and Nonis playing good cop bad cop always ends up with the good cop being rewarded with bad cops job.

- boonerbuck

I think what worked in Gillis' favour was timing. He hit the core's potential at the exact time and threw an injection of quality depth to it. This is what boiled Nonis' blood the most imo,,, he saw the window approaching and believed it would have been him adding that depth. Hard to feel sorry for Nonis who's NHL GM career consists of surviving Burke's firings twice and stepping up by default.... but also has had no responses to job applications in the NHL while on the open market. Gillis presented a resume and was hired in confidence. Nonis rejected on the market.

- boonerbuck

Good post

I don't know... crazy.

Could you ever imagine Burke hiring Nonis ever again? That is comical... If I were Burke I wouldnt even answer Nonis' calls again. Burke and Nonis playing good cop bad cop always ends up with the good cop being rewarded with bad cops job.

- boonerbuck

Good post
- Bieksa#3

Have you been on "vacation"? there have been a few new posters in here that share a similar rant to your own, and you were no where to be seen...

I might have my timing wrong, but I don't think that Bieksa signed "first". Gillis tried to get Ehrhoff to extend and couldn't, so he traded him to Philly or something, who traded him to Buffalo. I don't think Ehrhoff even made it to UFA, I'm pretty sure he signed with Buffalo before July 1. I think he (Ehrhoff) saw an opportunity to cash in and did, simple as that. Players want the security of long contracts, makes sense, their careers are short.
- 1970vintage

Yes, I think Hoff and KB were offered identical contracts. I think that's fair, both offer something different in what they bring to the team

Hey Todd, what gives, its a game day and we haven't seen the pre-game blog! It's well and good that you stayed up late to post the "rapid reaction", but what have you done for us lately...