Yeah, because he could handle Scott in a 1-on-1 fight.
- jmatchett383

Yeah, you're right, Clarkson and Kessel, no difference there.

So what we learned is that Rosehill isn't useless?
NICE!
- FlyersGrace

Ha! Yeah. Jody Shelley was too old and worn down, and Riley Cote was simply too limited with his skills.

But guys like Donald Brashear, when he was engaged in the game...he was helpful.

You don't want a player like Simmonds deciding that he has to stand up for his teammates, and mixing it up with a guy like Scott. That's not good. You want a guy who you won't mind losing to injury to do it, such as Rosehill. Taking on a tough regular shift player in the lineup such as Clarkson is one thing. But a true enforcer, you don't want your regular shift guys dealing with that.
- MJL

I remember in the game in 11/12 versus Pittsburgh where Briere got run late that Simmonds ended up going with Engelland. That did not end very well for him.

Rosehill's fine as an "in case" 13th forward. But even if there's an injury, I'd still rather have a guy like McGinn called up (salary cap allowing) and keep Rosehill as your situational 13th forward, only dressed when it seems necessary.
- jmatchett383

It depends on the length of injury. If a guy is only going to be out 3-4 games, then Rosehill is fine. If we are talking a month or more, then sure call someone up to fill that position.

No, we learned that John Scott is useless, but Buffalo sometimes like playing useless players, which makes Rosehill not useless.

I also learned that Buffalo fans are putting the majority of blame on Kessel for instigating the fight.
- jmatchett383

6ft 8inches - 270 lbs.
Scott's a friggin gorilla!
Kessel didn't instigate no way. But the slashes were stupid... Beyond stupid.

Yeah, you're right, Clarkson and Kessel, no difference there.
- Tomahawk

I'm saying that, no matter WHO was out there, no one on that roster could have handled Scott. If Clarkson actually tried, their prized UFA would have his face smashed in. He's a big boy, but not in Scott's league at all.

6ft 8inches - 270 lbs.
Scott's a friggin gorilla!
Kessel didn't instigate no way. But the slashes were stupid... Beyond stupid.
- FlyersGrace

So Chara and...Morin in 4 years???

6ft 8inches - 270 lbs.
Scott's a friggin gorilla!
Kessel didn't instigate no way. But the slashes were stupid... Beyond stupid.
- FlyersGrace

Irony is, for all his size, he's a mediocre fighter.

Rosehill's fine as an "in case" 13th forward. But even if there's an injury, I'd still rather have a guy like McGinn called up (salary cap allowing) and keep Rosehill as your situational 13th forward, only dressed when it seems necessary.
- jmatchett383

I don't have a problem with that, because I'd like to get some young guys in the NHL lineup and contributing.

6ft 8inches - 270 lbs.
Scott's a friggin gorilla!
Kessel didn't instigate no way. But the slashes were stupid... Beyond stupid.
- FlyersGrace

Oh, absolutely. The first one, again, I don't condone it, but I can at least understand. But the second one, the spear/slash, that should get him a long suspension, as it's clear intent o injure. But I think he'll get suspended for the rest of the preseason and that's it.

I'm saying that, no matter WHO was out there, no one on that roster could have handled Scott. If Clarkson actually tried, their prized UFA would have his face smashed in. He's a big boy, but not in Scott's league at all.
- jmatchett383

No question, especially in a pre season game. Now due to some really poor coaching on Carlyle's part, Clarkson gets 10 games, and Kessel will get whatever he's going to get.

I'm saying that, no matter WHO was out there, no one on that roster could have handled Scott. If Clarkson actually tried, their prized UFA would have his face smashed in. He's a big boy, but not in Scott's league at all.
- jmatchett383

The goal isn't to win a fight, the goal is to avoid putting your tissue paper soft 40-goal scorer smack dab in the middle of the trolley tracks. Better that Max Talbot took that beating from Carcillo than Crosby, right?

Just saw the Kassian thing.

He's another guy I wouldn't mind seeing Kessel slash in the ankle 3 times.

I remember in the game in 11/12 versus Pittsburgh where Briere got run late that Simmonds ended up going with Engelland. That did not end very well for him.
- jmatchett383

I am a guy that never wants fighting taken out of the game, however I think that the role of enforcer is just about extinct. We have guys that can fight and take care of themselves like Hartnell, Simmonds, Rinaldo, Talbot, and Lecavalier. Sure you dont want them to fight anyone that is goonish, but really why does anyone have to fight the other team's goon? Because he goes out for 5 minutes a game and runs at a star player? There are better ways to get around that. Send every hard hitter after their star player every shift. Walk away from the goons antics and watch him get called.

I remember in the game in 11/12 versus Pittsburgh where Briere got run late that Simmonds ended up going with Engelland. That did not end very well for him.
- jmatchett383

I am a guy that never wants fighting taken out of the game, however I think that the role of enforcer is just about extinct. We have guys that can fight and take care of themselves like Hartnell, Simmonds, Rinaldo, Talbot, and Lecavalier. Sure you dont want them to fight anyone that is goonish, but really why does anyone have to fight the other team's goon? Because he goes out for 5 minutes a game and runs at a star player? There are better ways to get around that. Send every hard hitter after their star player every shift. Walk away from the goons antics and watch him get called.

No question, especially in a pre season game. Now due to some really poor coaching on Carlyle's part, Clarkson gets 10 games, and Kessel will get whatever he's going to get.
- MJL

It wasnt really bad coaching... he put out the best guys, but didnt get the result he was hoping for...

Kinda like Homer spending to the cap to put out the best lineup, and not getting the results he had hoped for and having to pay a price as a result of that.

Wait, thats not bad cap management?

Im confused.

The goal isn't to win a fight, the goal is to avoid putting your tissue paper soft 40-goal scorer smack dab in the middle of the trolley tracks. Better that Max Talbot took that beating from Carcillo than Crosby, right?
- Tomahawk

If you're going to basically just put a sacrificial lamb out there, there were probably 3-4 guys in that game who will never be an NHL regular. Might as well put them out if the only thing you're doing is protecting an asset from a pummeling.

Oh, absolutely. The first one, again, I don't condone it, but I can at least understand. But the second one, the spear/slash, that should get him a long suspension, as it's clear intent o injure. But I think he'll get suspended for the rest of the preseason and that's it.
- jmatchett383

He actually took three on him. One initial "get off me", one when two of his teammates jumped in and Scott was distracted, and then a spear after everything had settled down and Scott was still "talking" to Clarkson. Kessel skated up and "pushed" Scott with his stick and a jibe. Find the longer video playbacks for that one.
Like I said, dumb.

I am a guy that never wants fighting taken out of the game, however I think that the role of enforcer is just about extinct. We have guys that can fight and take care of themselves like Hartnell, Simmonds, Rinaldo, Talbot, and Lecavalier. Sure you dont want them to fight anyone that is goonish, but really why does anyone have to fight the other team's goon? Because he goes out for 5 minutes a game and runs at a star player? There are better ways to get around that. Send every hard hitter after their star player every shift. Walk away from the goons antics and watch him get called.
- youarewrong

That's why teams with "star players" have an enforcer, so that Scott Hartnell knows he's not allowed to just constantly try to run Sidney Crosby 50 times a game.

I am a guy that never wants fighting taken out of the game, however I think that the role of enforcer is just about extinct. We have guys that can fight and take care of themselves like Hartnell, Simmonds, Rinaldo, Talbot, and Lecavalier. Sure you dont want them to fight anyone that is goonish, but really why does anyone have to fight the other team's goon? Because he goes out for 5 minutes a game and runs at a star player? There are better ways to get around that. Send every hard hitter after their star player every shift. Walk away from the goons antics and watch him get called.
- youarewrong

I thought the link Tangent posted earlier was a good read about goons... I had no idea they really got going in the 90's...

The goal isn't to win a fight, the goal is to avoid putting your tissue paper soft 40-goal scorer smack dab in the middle of the trolley tracks. Better that Max Talbot took that beating from Carcillo than Crosby, right?
- Tomahawk

You are just posting things today that are going to get me into trouble.

I still think Daniel Carcillo was totally correct in fighting in that game, and I think it's revisionist history that because the Flyers lost, it was wrong.

I was watching that game. Somebody on the Pens deserved a beating that day, because they had started running around because they were losing. It's not Carcillo's fault that three guys let Evgeni Malkin come out of the corner with the puck and score either the tying or winning goal -- I can't remember.

He actually took three on him. One initial "get off me", one when two of his teammates jumped in and Scott was distracted, and then a spear after everything had settled down and Scott was still "talking" to Clarkson. Kessel skated up and "pushed" Scott with his stick and a jibe. Find the longer video playbacks for that one.
Like I said, dumb.
- FlyersGrace

Oh, I didn't notice the spear, just the 2 slashes.

I am a guy that never wants fighting taken out of the game, however I think that the role of enforcer is just about extinct. We have guys that can fight and take care of themselves like Hartnell, Simmonds, Rinaldo, Talbot, and Lecavalier. Sure you dont want them to fight anyone that is goonish, but really why does anyone have to fight the other team's goon? Because he goes out for 5 minutes a game and runs at a star player? There are better ways to get around that. Send every hard hitter after their star player every shift. Walk away from the goons antics and watch him get called.
- youarewrong

When it comes to protecting your star players, you don't care about penalty calls. Never understood that logic, to take the PP. That's nice but if your star player gets run by someone like Scott, and is injured or concussed or something like that, are you happy with the PP? A team needs to stand up for itself, and sometimes that is more important then getting a PP or the outcome of the game.

It wasnt really bad coaching... he put out the best guys, but didnt get the result he was hoping for...

Kinda like Homer spending to the cap to put out the best lineup, and not getting the results he had hoped for and having to pay a price as a result of that.

Wait, thats not bad cap management?

Im confused.
- jak521

OMG, don't bring this up again!

If you're going to basically just put a sacrificial lamb out there, there were probably 3-4 guys in that game who will never be an NHL regular. Might as well put them out if the only thing you're doing is protecting an asset from a pummeling.
- jmatchett383

Clarkson might actually be able to hold his own... John Scott is no Derek Boogaard... he gets handled by much smaller guys with regularity.