You don't think Murray had players higher on his asking list than Lupul, after they already traded him away once before?
- Tomahawk

Maybe he did, but it's not like Murray traded Joffrey Lupul the first time simply to get rid of him. He was part of the cost to bring Pronger to Anaheim.

Missing out on Cleary was a good thing if the contract rumors were true. They shouldn't have offered him anything more than what Detroit gave him, or what St Louis just gave Morrow.
- Feanor

I'm not arguing if that was a good thing or bad. I was very indifferent to Cleary. Wouldn't have been upset if we signed him, but at the same time, wasn't upset to see him go either.

HOLMGREN IS THE WORST GM IN THE HISTORY OF EVER.

Now, who thinks the Flyers will be better than 2 of Pittsburgh, NYR, NYI, Washington, NJD, and Columbus? Please list which they'll be better than.

I'm not arguing if that was a good thing or bad. I was very indifferent to Cleary. Wouldn't have been upset if we signed him, but at the same time, wasn't upset to see him go either.
- youarewrong

Agreed, just kind of feels like a thing that happened (or didn't happen, or whatever).

Maybe he did, but it's not like Murray traded Joffrey Lupul the first time simply to get rid of him. He was part of the cost to bring Pronger to Anaheim.
- johndewar

Be that as it may, the Flyers wouldn't have been able to fit Pronger under the cap without sending Lupul's cap-number out the door.

HOLMGREN IS THE WORST GM IN THE HISTORY OF EVER.

Now, who thinks the Flyers will be better than 2 of Pittsburgh, NYR, NYI, Washington, NJD, and Columbus? Please list which they'll be better than.
- jmatchett383

I have a feeling this might be a sarcastic reply to something that happened earlier... lol....

But I'm going to answer seriously. I think the Flyers will be 2nd.

Pittsburgh
Flyers
Capitals
Rangers
Islanders
Columbus
Devils
Carolina

HOLMGREN IS THE WORST GM IN THE HISTORY OF EVER.

Now, who thinks the Flyers will be better than 2 of Pittsburgh, NYR, NYI, Washington, NJD, and Columbus? Please list which they'll be better than.
- jmatchett383

I have a feeling this might be a sarcastic reply to something that happened earlier... lol....

But I'm going to answer seriously. I think the Flyers will be 2nd.

Pittsburgh
Flyers
Capitals
Rangers
Islanders
Columbus
Devils
Carolina

I have a feeling this might be a sarcastic reply to something that happened earlier... lol....

But I'm going to answer seriously. I think the Flyers will be 2nd.

Pittsburgh
Flyers
Capitals
Rangers
Islanders
Columbus
Devils
Carolina
- youarewrong

I can't wait to see the Caps play in a real division. They are in for a rude awakening.

Be that as it may, the Flyers wouldn't have been able to fit Pronger under the cap without sending Lupul's cap-number out the door.
- Tomahawk

Well, you have to give something to get something. It's not like Anaheim was going to gift Chris Pronger to the Flyers

I can't wait to see the Caps play in a real division. They are in for a rude awakening.
- PhillySportsGuy

I agree. No more playing the Lightning/Panthers/Canes/Jets all the time. Tougher opponents, and a more physical style of hockey.

I see the Flyers as a fringe 4/5 spot. I like the team, but I think the goaltending is a huge question mark. If it holds up, and the team does as well, they could challenge NYR for the # spot. If not, they're probably behind Pitt/NYR, and fighting with Columbus, NYI, and Washington for the #3-#5 spots.[/img]

I can't wait to see the Caps play in a real division. They are in for a rude awakening.
- PhillySportsGuy

Agreed. I mean really that whole SE division is going to get a rude awakening... with no guarenteed 3rd for the divison winner....

HOLMGREN IS THE WORST GM IN THE HISTORY OF EVER.

Now, who thinks the Flyers will be better than 2 of Pittsburgh, NYR, NYI, Washington, NJD, and Columbus? Please list which they'll be better than.
- jmatchett383

I think all of these teams have question marks.

1.) Pittsburgh. They go here until proven otherwise. As long as Crosby and Malkin are healthy, they'll win the division. I do think they are not a particularly deep team after those two players, though. And rumors they are bringing in Bryz to solidify the goaltending? LOL.

2.) The Flyers. Question marks on team defensive commitment (criticism of their defensive personnel is too simplistic). Can the goaltending aspire to be average? If Schenn and Couturier develop positively, they could win the division.

3.) The Islanders. The up and comers. JT, Moulson, et al. I'd give them a punchers chance to win the division.

4.) The Rangers. How often does it work out when you bring in the "player's coach" after firing the hard ass coach? Just wondering.

5.) Washington. Lots of talent, but they are in a big boy division now.

6.) Columbus. They've got some pieces, but they'll need Bob to do something he's never done: Carry the goaltending load over the course of a full 82 game season.

7.) NJD. Under the best of circumstances, I thought this team would struggle to make the playoffs. With no Kovy? Woof.

I think all of these teams have question marks.
7.) NJD. Under the best of circumstances, I thought this team would struggle to make the playoffs. With no Kovy? Woof.
- johndewar

But it seems every year we say that... and they always find a way. I would not be shocked if they found a way again this year.

I have a feeling the goaltending is going to either be average or underwhelming this year... I really hope that Mason can become 'the guy', but I'm not holding my breath considering his overall career flakiness. And we know from past experience that counting on Emery's health is a long-shot bet in and of itself.

I wouldn't be surprised to see them shell out top dollar for the biggest name goaltender AND dman next summer... and then be forced to make more salary-shedding moves as a result.
- Tomahawk

That's what the Cap is all about. making choices on which players to sign, which to keep, and which to get rid if. You act like that's a problem. That's what being a high market, top spending team is all about. It's making the correct choices that is the issue.

Well, you have to give something to get something. It's not like Anaheim was going to gift Chris Pronger to the Flyers
- johndewar

Sure, but cap dynamics and the nature of both contract extensions played a part in which players Homer wanted to deal away... pre-extension JvR was an untouchable... let's just say nobody here was blindsided when post-extension JvR was dealt, since it had been rumored for months. Same thing for Lupul... his name was out there the minute he couldn't build on his 07-08 season after getting extended.

But it seems every year we say that... and they always find a way. I would not be shocked if they found a way again this year.
- mikel33

I wouldn't be shocked if they were a bottom feeder, either.

I think all of these teams have question marks.

1.) Pittsburgh. They go here until proven otherwise. As long as Crosby and Malkin are healthy, they'll win the division. I do think they are not a particularly deep team after those two players, though. And rumors they are bringing in Bryz to solidify the goaltending? LOL.

2.) The Flyers. Question marks on team defensive commitment (criticism of their defensive personnel is too simplistic). Can the goaltending aspire to be average? If Schenn and Couturier develop positively, they could win the division.

3.) The Islanders. The up and comers. JT, Moulson, et al. I'd give them a punchers chance to win the division.

4.) The Rangers. How often does it work out when you bring in the "player's coach" after firing the hard ass coach? Just wondering.
- johndewar

The Rangers still have the best defensemen and goaltending in the division. I would have them ahead of the Flyers and Islanders.

So is it better if they were forced to make a bad trade or if they willfully decided to make a bad trade?

The bottom line here is that they wasted an asset because they made the decision to spend as much against the cap as they did. I'm not going to waste time arguing pointless semantics.

You really want to argue whether they were forced or that they just made an unforced bad decision? Knock yourself out, because that's a pointless discussion.
- Jsaquella

No, it's not better. You can certainly make a valid argument that it was a bad trade. My argument is simply this. They weren't forced to make the trade due to poor Cap management. They mad a choice to accept that trade, in order to bring Giroux back onto the team. There were other choices. It's not a pointless discussion when that trade is being used to point out poor cap management.

the point is that kid - forget his name - should never have even been in the building, let alone have the coach put in a position to at least consider playing him the 3rd period.

never said they were perfect. i have a lot of confidence and trust in holmgren.

why do you think they would "simply choose to trade meszaros"? what's the logic. what do they want in return?

i'm also interested in what you think are the "real mistakes" made since 2005.
- hammarby31

No the point is that it's really no big deal. I don't rememebr the exact circumstances behind it. They'd want to choose to trade Meszaros to have more cap flexibility, such as at the deadline, and to create more playing time for player such as Gustafsson.
I don't thnk there have been any bad mistakes made with the Cap. Certainly you can look player moves and trades made that are mistakes in the past.

But it seems every year we say that... and they always find a way. I would not be shocked if they found a way again this year.
- mikel33

True. I just think this is the year they fall off a cliff.

Probably...

Gagne and Briere were players they would have liked to keep, but were dumped to create cap room to make other moves,

JvR and Lupul probably wouldn't have been on the trading block if not for those hasty high-$ contract extensions,

Bob getting dealt had something to do with his high cap-hit,

They couldn't afford extensions for Upshall and Umberger.

There's probably more...
- Tomahawk

None of those are cap mistakes. The very basic findamentals of the Cap, is that you can't sign everybody, and you can't keep everybody. It's the whole point of the Cap. And it's how every team operates.

The Rangers still have the best defensemen and goaltending in the division. I would have them ahead of the Flyers and Islanders.
- Feanor

let's see how much a 5" pad reduction affects CSP.

That's what the Cap is all about. making choices on which players to sign, which to keep, and which to get rid if. You act like that's a problem. That's what being a high market, top spending team is all about. It's making the correct choices that is the issue.
- MJL

I thought the cap was about league parity, thats the lie we've been told anyway.

I thought the cap was about league parity, thats the lie we've been told anyway.
- twotoekenn

i thought so too, but wait for it...we will all be told the correct way we all should be thinking.

I have a feeling this might be a sarcastic reply to something that happened earlier... lol....

But I'm going to answer seriously. I think the Flyers will be 2nd.

Pittsburgh
Flyers
Capitals
Rangers
Islanders
Columbus
Devils
Carolina
- youarewrong

I have this feeling that Columbus shouldn't be counted out so quickly. And the Debs, well, they're always in the thick of it.