really? why?

as far as i know, a 20 year old player is no longer waiver exempt once they enter their 3rd year in the league or play 160 games. this is couturier's 3rd year?

as for schenn, a 22 year old player is no longer waiver exempt once they enter their 3rd year in the league or play 70 games. i think schenn meets both those criteria?

not 100% sure if i'm right, but i'm pretty sure i am lol.
- rangerdanger94

According to capgeek's waivers calculator, both Couturier and Schenn are exempt from waivers.

Even if they weren't, the Flyers can send Rosehill, Gervais and Bourdon to the AHL and squeak in under the cap.

they find ways. sometimes they seem hamstrung. like signing a defenseman off the street to a $100 contract for the final game of the season against an arch rival, who coincidentally happened to be on the ice when they allowed the game winning goal in the 3rd period and it cost them a better seed in the opening round. just using that as one single minor example

i'm not railing against homer, or saying they have cap problems. i'm asking a question of why bill thinks they could move meszaros when they don't really need to. if it's just for more cap room, then, i hate that - dumping a valuable guy for space. it suggests THEY feel they'd need the room. you can argue semantics over the word "problem" all day long. i'm not having that conversation.
- hammarby31

Having Pronger counting $4.94m against the cap for four more years is a problem, but there are solutions to it.

We shouldn't be overly worried about bonus overages. The vast majority of Schenn and Couturier's bonuses are unattainable.

I will fault them when they make shortsighted decisions that require them to give up assets to trade away a salary to fit in a better player.

If you feel that being forced to trade a better player, plus a second round draft pick, to land a lesser player because he has a more manageable contract is acceptable, fine.

I'm not going to gloss over having to make a dumb move because the team overspent as "less than ideal", because it was a needless waste of an asset.
- Jsaquella

Where I disagree is that they weren't forced. They made a choice, and that's how they decided to make room to bring Giroux back.

Right now, they have over $7mm under next year's cap if it stays right where it is this year. If the cap goes up $2 or $3mm, they'll have room to add players.
- Jsaquella

I guess it's probably pointless to worry about next year before a game has been played this year.

ELC doesn't have anything to do with it. it's determined by how many games/how many years they've spent in the NHL, i believe.
- rangerdanger94

Whatevs. they're waiver exempt

Mason could revert back to Columbus form, and Emery could be re-injured if his work load is overbearing. That could easily happen.
- PLindbergh31

In that case, they'd have to either trade for a goalie or sign a free agent anyhow. If they trade a player, say Matt Read, that clears up $3.6mm in space to fit the goalie.

Check out Capgeek's waiver calculator for Schenn and Couturier. See what it tells you.
- MJL

ah okay.

that's why i came in here wondering what you guys were gonna do cuz i thought that any player with a sizeable cap hit had to clear waivers but i'm wrong.

A cap compliant team for Sep. 30th. After the season starts Pronger can go on LTIR and they can makes moves like bringing up Laughton assuming they see him as an everyday player on the 4th line.

FORWARDS
Scott Hartnell ($4.750m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Jakub Voracek ($4.250m)
Brayden Schenn ($3.110m) / Vincent Lecavalier ($4.500m) / Wayne Simmonds ($3.975m)
Maxime Talbot ($1.750m) / Sean Couturier ($1.375m) / Matt Read ($0.900m)
Jay Rosehill ($0.675m) / Adam Hall ($0.600m) / Zac Rinaldo ($0.750m)
DEFENSEMEN
Kimmo Timonen ($6.000m) / Mark Streit ($5.250m)
Chris Pronger ($4.941m) / Braydon Coburn ($4.500m)
Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m) / Luke Schenn ($3.600m)
Nicklas Grossmann ($3.500m) / Erik Gustafsson ($1.000m)
GOALTENDERS
Ray Emery ($1.650m)
Steve Mason ($1.500m)
OTHER
Buyout: Oskars Bartulis ($0.100m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $66,609,356; BONUSES: $2,800,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $490,644

I know the cap is going up next season, my question is the Flyers do not have any goaltenders under contract next year. So what happens if

A. The goaltenders don't pan out this year
B. They play very well, and are in line for big pay raises

I know Timonen's and Meszaros contracts are off the books this year, where does the money come from next year to find Timonen's replacement, account for Giroux's nearly 5 million dollar cap increase, and sign two goaltenders?
- PLindbergh31

I have a feeling the goaltending is going to either be average or underwhelming this year... I really hope that Mason can become 'the guy', but I'm not holding my breath considering his overall career flakiness. And we know from past experience that counting on Emery's health is a long-shot bet in and of itself.

I wouldn't be surprised to see them shell out top dollar for the biggest name goaltender AND dman next summer... and then be forced to make more salary-shedding moves as a result.

In that case, they'd have to either trade for a goalie or sign a free agent anyhow. If they trade a player, say Matt Read, that clears up $3.6mm in space to fit the goalie.
- Jsaquella

Read didn't get a NTC? I thought his contract was fair for both sides. I don't think he signed for any type of hometown discount.

Stepan is going to get less than what Read got.

Probably...

Gagne and Briere were players they would have liked to keep, but were dumped to create cap room to make other moves,

JvR and Lupul probably wouldn't have been on the trading block if not for those hasty high-$ contract extensions,

Bob getting dealt had something to do with his high cap-hit,

They couldn't afford extensions for Upshall and Umberger.

There's probably more...
- Tomahawk

Bob getting dealt had to do with the fact they didn't think he'd be put to full use since they counted on Bryz starting about 85% of the games.

Upshall was dealt because they couldn't have both him and Giroux on the team.

Lupul was dealt as a key piece to get Chris Pronger.

The rest I'll give you.

Where I disagree is that they weren't forced. They made a choice, and that's how they decided to make room to bring Giroux back.
- MJL

So is it better if they were forced to make a bad trade or if they willfully decided to make a bad trade?

The bottom line here is that they wasted an asset because they made the decision to spend as much against the cap as they did. I'm not going to waste time arguing pointless semantics.

You really want to argue whether they were forced or that they just made an unforced bad decision? Knock yourself out, because that's a pointless discussion.

Read didn't get a NTC? I thought his contract was fair for both sides. I don't think he signed for any type of hometown discount.

Stepan is going to get less than what Read got.
- PLindbergh31

No word on a NTC from the media reports or on capgeek.

Read didn't get a NTC? I thought his contract was fair for both sides. I don't think he signed for any type of hometown discount.

Stepan is going to get less than what Read got.
- PLindbergh31

woops misread that.

Having Pronger counting $4.94m against the cap for four more years is a problem, but there are solutions to it.

We shouldn't be overly worried about bonus overages. The vast majority of Schenn and Couturier's bonuses are unattainable.
- Feanor

They have about $182K in dead space this year from bonus overages last season

I have a feeling the goaltending is going to either be average or underwhelming this year... I really hope that Mason can become 'the guy', but I'm not holding my breath considering his overall career flakiness. And we know from past experience that counting on Emery's health is a long-shot bet in and of itself.

I wouldn't be surprised to see them shell out top dollar for the biggest name goaltender AND dman next summer... and then be forced to make more salary-shedding moves as a result.
- Tomahawk

Very possible. I like Mason's lateral movement, size, and ability to handle the puck. Between his ears is what concerns me. He has all the physical attributes to play well.

I would say that the mistake there is on the Coaches for having the player out there. The Cap has been in place since 2005. You can count the real mistakes on one had in 8 years. They're not going to be perfect. The Flyers may simply choose to trade Meszaros, which is usually the case in moves made. It is a choice. Just like they didn't have to trade Gagne to TB, but they chose too.
- MJL

the point is that kid - forget his name - should never have even been in the building, let alone have the coach put in a position to at least consider playing him the 3rd period.

never said they were perfect. i have a lot of confidence and trust in holmgren.

why do you think they would "simply choose to trade meszaros"? what's the logic. what do they want in return?

i'm also interested in what you think are the "real mistakes" made since 2005.

Yep. And had they managed the cap more effectively, they wouldn't have had to give away an asset to dump a salary.

Saying they've made no cap mistakes and always manage the cap well is just as moronic as saying that they suck at everything and can't win because they are stupid.

It's not black and white. They have made mistakes in handling the cap and monetary decisions. Overall they do a good job, but they do not always have themselves in a great position in terms of the cap.
- Jsaquella

This.

It's not like they're the only ones, either -- Toronto's having a hell of a time getting Cody Franson signed. Everybody knew that Jonathan Bernier was getting traded for a cheap winger, because the Kings were capped out and literally had no money to sign a replacement winger OR re-sign Bernier.

So on and so forth.

As for Meszaros vs. Grossmann...I'd move Meszaros first, not because I don't like either player less than the other, but I do believe Erik Gustafsson needs to play, that he is ready to play, and Meszaros is the player who simply isn't going to be here past this season.

bill - if they dump meszaros (or another vet dman) what do you think they're look for in return other than some cap relief? i thought they didn't need to trade anyone to get under the cap - so if that's true - why would they do this if they indeed don't have a "cap problem" as some in here believe.
- hammarby31

Even if they can get under the cap with on-paper transactions and then putting Pronger on LTIR, the Flyers would have the NHL's most expensive starting and Gustafsson (whom they want to look at in the starting six for a prolonged stretch of time) would currently be the number seven.

So is it better if they were forced to make a bad trade or if they willfully decided to make a bad trade?

The bottom line here is that they wasted an asset because they made the decision to spend as much against the cap as they did. I'm not going to waste time arguing pointless semantics.

You really want to argue whether they were forced or that they just made an unforced bad decision? Knock yourself out, because that's a pointless discussion.
- Jsaquella

Very possible. I like Mason's lateral movement, size, and ability to handle the puck. Between his ears is what concerns me. He has all the physical attributes to play well.
- PLindbergh31

The key for Mason is communication and hard work. Both were issues in Columbus. Hopefully he's more mature now and willing to work his ass off.

If not, he'll be wasting his natural ability.

The key for Mason is communication and hard work. Both were issues in Columbus. Hopefully he's more mature now and willing to work his ass off.

If not, he'll be wasting his natural ability.
- Jsaquella

No question about it. Agree.

Even if they can get under the cap with on-paper transactions and then putting Pronger on LTIR, the Flyers would have the NHL's most expensive starting and Gustafsson (whom they want to look at in the starting six for a prolonged stretch of time) would currently be the number seven.
- bmeltzer

so they only want cap space then?

I have a feeling the goaltending is going to either be average or underwhelming this year... I really hope that Mason can become 'the guy', but I'm not holding my breath considering his overall career flakiness. And we know from past experience that counting on Emery's health is a long-shot bet in and of itself.

I wouldn't be surprised to see them shell out top dollar for the biggest name goaltender AND dman next summer... and then be forced to make more salary-shedding moves as a result.
- Tomahawk

I think they learned their lesson on that.

I could see them being very aggressive through trade.

Even if they can get under the cap with on-paper transactions and then putting Pronger on LTIR, the Flyers would have the NHL's most expensive starting and Gustafsson (whom they want to look at in the starting six for a prolonged stretch of time) would currently be the number seven.
- bmeltzer

That makes sense. I just don't know what teams are going to be interested in taking on Meszaros and his $5.5m salary.

There is also a chance Kimmo could want to come back and the Flyers would be stupid not to take him back.
- PhillySportsGuy

I would love to have Kimmo back assuming he has another good year and stays healthy, but not at $6 million again. If he wants that much cash he can try another team.