i'm just asking questions. seems potentially short-sited to move a quality offensive dman - meszaros - to deal with cap issues if they don't have to. the cap will be increasing substantially next season, no? enough to deal with any bonus overages they defer because of pronger's contract?

i don't have an issue with them spending to the limit in theory..but it always seems to be a tightrope dance all the way to the end. would be nice to have some room once in awhile to deal with the curve balls that never seem to end more easily.

i'd like to keep meszaros AND grossmann.
- hammarby31

This is where I am. I'd like to keep them BOTH. Not until reading MJL and Jasq did I realize we could make some paper moves and be Cap compliant. Sure we will be close to the Cap during the year, but it is worth it keep them both.

Bill,
Isn't there a serious injury concern with Grossman? Last years' concussion sounded bad. The last thing the Flyers need is another permanently injured defensemen. It wouldn't be the worst thing to sell now. Way are your thoughts about his future with concussions?
- psuhockey

I think he has more value to the Flyers as a potentially healthy defenseman compared to the relatively low return they'd get.

Detroit is actually in worse cap shape than the Flyers.

That's where I take objection in the blind Holmgren bashing, as well as the blind Holmgren defense.

I think overall he's a good GM, far from perfect or being the best GM in the league.
- Jsaquella

at least he tries to actively improve your team. i'd much rather have that than a guy like snow or regier.

I know the cap is going up next season, my question is the Flyers do not have any goaltenders under contract next year. So what happens if

A. The goaltenders don't pan out this year
B. They play very well, and are in line for big pay raises

I know Timonen's and Meszaros contracts are off the books this year, where does the money come from next year to find Timonen's replacement, account for Giroux's nearly 5 million dollar cap increase, and sign two goaltenders?
- PLindbergh31

Right now, they have over $7mm under next year's cap if it stays right where it is this year. If the cap goes up $2 or $3mm, they'll have room to add players.

Yep. And had they managed the cap more effectively, they wouldn't have had to give away an asset to dump a salary.

Saying they've made no cap mistakes and always manage the cap well is just as moronic as saying that they suck at everything and can't win because they are stupid.

It's not black and white. They have made mistakes in handling the cap and monetary decisions. Overall they do a good job, but they do not always have themselves in a great position in terms of the cap.
- Jsaquella

I don't see it as not handling the Cap more effectively. I see as just a part of the Cap, in which you can't always do everything you want to do, and spend an unlimited amount of money on players. Which is really the whole point of the Cap. The trade wasn't ideal, but it wasn't a big deal in my opinion. They have a philosophy of utilizing all the Cap resources they have, every Season. I won't fault them for that.

But they've always had the room. To call up players. To acquire players at the deadline. And to acquire top Free Agents. Year after year.
- MJL

they find ways. sometimes they seem hamstrung. like signing a defenseman off the street to a $100 contract for the final game of the season against an arch rival, who coincidentally happened to be on the ice when they allowed the game winning goal in the 3rd period and it cost them a better seed in the opening round. just using that as one single minor example

i'm not railing against homer, or saying they have cap problems. i'm asking a question of why bill thinks they could move meszaros when they don't really need to. if it's just for more cap room, then, i hate that - dumping a valuable guy for space. it suggests THEY feel they'd need the room. you can argue semantics over the word "problem" all day long. i'm not having that conversation.

I know the cap is going up next season, my question is the Flyers do not have any goaltenders under contract next year. So what happens if

A. The goaltenders don't pan out this year
B. They play very well, and are in line for big pay raises

I know Timonen's and Meszaros contracts are off the books this year, where does the money come from next year to find Timonen's replacement, account for Giroux's nearly 5 million dollar cap increase, and sign two goaltenders?
- PLindbergh31

There is also a chance Kimmo could want to come back and the Flyers would be stupid not to take him back.

Schenn and Couturier. Schenn has a large cap hit because the Kings don't know how to negotiate ELCs
- PhillySportsGuy

wouldn't both schenn and couturier have to pass through waivers?

at least he tries to actively improve your team. i'd much rather have that than a guy like snow or regier.
- rangerdanger94

I like Holmgren. But I also would prefer that he be a little less of a gunslinger.

Can't see teams lining up to deal fair value to land a guy with two wonky knees coming off a serious concussion.
- Jsaquella

I can't either. I'm honestly surprised that Bill thinks either him or Meszaros will be traded in the next week.

The idea of Gill being anywhere the Flyers top 7 makes me ill.

wouldn't both schenn and couturier have to pass through waivers?
- rangerdanger94

Nope. Both are waiver exempt.

This.

That's hardly the only questionable move they've had to make to deal with limited cap space before and during a season in order to make other moves.

So yes, when day 1 comes along, they won't be exceeding the upper limit... but that doesn't mean they don't have any 'cap problems' this season and beyond.
- Tomahawk

Well what are the Cap problems they have this Season of beyond?

I know the cap is going up next season, my question is the Flyers do not have any goaltenders under contract next year. So what happens if

A. The goaltenders don't pan out this year
B. They play very well, and are in line for big pay raises

I know Timonen's and Meszaros contracts are off the books this year, where does the money come from next year to find Timonen's replacement, account for Giroux's nearly 5 million dollar cap increase, and sign two goaltenders?
- PLindbergh31

I think one of the goalies will be re-signed. I doubt both of them go in the tank.

And I wouldn't automatically assume that Timonen will ride off into the sunset at this point. He might have another season in him depending on how this season goes for him.

I'm still not even sure the Flyers trade Richards and Carter if not for the cap problems the Bryz deal created.
- PhillySportsGuy

Probably...

Gagne and Briere were players they would have liked to keep, but were dumped to create cap room to make other moves,

JvR and Lupul probably wouldn't have been on the trading block if not for those hasty high-$ contract extensions,

Bob getting dealt had something to do with his high cap-hit,

They couldn't afford extensions for Upshall and Umberger.

There's probably more...

wouldn't both schenn and couturier have to pass through waivers?
- rangerdanger94

Nope. Still on ELC until next season.

they find ways. sometimes they seem hamstrung. like signing a defenseman off the street to a $100 contract for the final game of the season against an arch rival, who coincidentally happened to be on the ice when they allowed the game winning goal in the 3rd period and it cost them a better seed in the opening round. just using that as one single minor example

i'm not railing against homer, or saying they have cap problems. i'm asking a question of why bill thinks they could move meszaros when they don't really need to. if it's just for more cap room, then, i hate that - dumping a valuable guy for space. it suggests THEY feel they'd need the room. you can argue semantics over the word "problem" all day long. i'm not having that conversation.
- hammarby31

I would say that the mistake there is on the Coaches for having the player out there. The Cap has been in place since 2005. You can count the real mistakes on one had in 8 years. They're not going to be perfect. The Flyers may simply choose to trade Meszaros, which is usually the case in moves made. It is a choice. Just like they didn't have to trade Gagne to TB, but they chose too.

Nope. Both are waiver exempt.
- Jsaquella

really? why?

as far as i know, a 20 year old player is no longer waiver exempt once they enter their 3rd year in the league or play 160 games. this is couturier's 3rd year?

as for schenn, a 22 year old player is no longer waiver exempt once they enter their 3rd year in the league or play 70 games. i think schenn meets both those criteria?

not 100% sure if i'm right, but i'm pretty sure i am lol.

Well what are the Cap problems they have this Season of beyond?
- MJL

It seems to me that next year, they look pretty good, capwise with the anticpated Cap increase, the reasonably price extensions and Kimmo's salary likely not being there.

Nope. Still on ELC until next season.
- PhillySportsGuy

ELC has zero to do with waivers.

Nope. Still on ELC until next season.
- PhillySportsGuy

ELC doesn't have anything to do with it. it's determined by how many games/how many years they've spent in the NHL, i believe.

I don't see it as not handling the Cap more effectively. I see as just a part of the Cap, in which you can't always do everything you want to do, and spend an unlimited amount of money on players. Which is really the whole point of the Cap. The trade wasn't ideal, but it wasn't a big deal in my opinion. They have a philosophy of utilizing all the Cap resources they have, every Season. I won't fault them for that.
- MJL

I will fault them when they make shortsighted decisions that require them to give up assets to trade away a salary to fit in a better player.

If you feel that being forced to trade a better player, plus a second round draft pick, to land a lesser player because he has a more manageable contract is acceptable, fine.

I'm not going to gloss over having to make a dumb move because the team overspent as "less than ideal", because it was a needless waste of an asset.

There is also a chance Kimmo could want to come back and the Flyers would be stupid not to take him back.
- PhillySportsGuy

Let's see what type of year he has first.

really? why?

as far as i know, a 20 year old player is no longer waiver exempt once they enter their 3rd year in the league or play 160 games. this is couturier's 3rd year?

as for schenn, a 22 year old player is no longer waiver exempt once they enter their 3rd year in the league or play 70 games. i think schenn meets both those criteria?

not 100% sure if i'm right, but i'm pretty sure i am lol.
- rangerdanger94

Check out Capgeek's waiver calculator for Schenn and Couturier. See what it tells you.

I think one of the goalies will be re-signed. I doubt both of them go in the tank.

And I wouldn't automatically assume that Timonen will ride off into the sunset at this point. He might have another season in him depending on how this season goes for him.
- johndewar

Mason could revert back to Columbus form, and Emery could be re-injured if his work load is overbearing. That could easily happen.

Probably...

Gagne and Briere were players they would have like to keep, but were dumped to create cap room to make other moves,

JvR and Lupul probably wouldn't have been on the trading block if not for those hasty high-$ contract extensions,

Bob getting dealt had something to do with his high cap-hit,

They couldn't afford extensions for Upshall and Umberger.

There's probably more...
- Tomahawk

Those are good examples. Sometimes Homer is able to get good value, but most times he can't.

I don't think JVR was a cap move. I think it was a desperate move because they had a very poor defense. Can you imagine the team without L. Schenn last year?