I see what you are saying and it's wrong. What do you not get.


Gardiner has more mins playing top4 than cowen. To you understand?
- burn

You seem to think iam saying cowen is a more established top 4 defender ,when i havent. He had his spot and role on the team established ,before gardener did.Cowen is a shutdown defender on the second pair ,Gardener after his rookie season in which he played on the 2nd pair mostly ,was not a lock to stay there cowen was.Most likely Gardener would have moved up whereas Cowen would have stayed in his more established second pair shutdown role

- top shelf 15[quote=top shelf 15]Hurt but still playing in the ahl???Cowen was hurt yes ,but didnt go to the ahl upon his return he went back to his established position and role in the second pair as the pairs shutdown defender.Stop being so combative and see what iam saying .Our team had already established Cowen,s position and role in our top 4 .Whereas Gardener was still looking to establish his place in their top 4 .

Had he established his position in the top 4 .Guys like Franson,Liles and Kosika would not have had to play in the top 4 last season. While Gardener was in the ahl playing mins while recovering from injury

exactly.... While recovering from injury.

And cowen has more mins in his position and role than gardener.Therfore cowen,s position on his team is more established

- top shelf 15

No he doesnt

No he doesnt
- burn

As a shutdown defender yes he does ,remember that,s his role and he plays it on the second pair

exactly.... While recovering from injury.
- burn

So playing while injured in the ahl ,but if his position and role were established shouldnt he have been doing that in the nhl???

So playing while injured in the ahl ,but if his position and role were established shouldnt he have been doing that in the nhl???
- top shelf 15

He was injured.

Why was t cowen playing last year? Did he lose his spot to start?

As a shutdown defender yes he does ,remember that,s his role and he plays it on the second pair
- top shelf 15

His role doesn't matter. As a top4 defenseman gardiner has more mins aged than cowen.

He was injured.

Why was t cowen playing last year? Did he lose his spot to start?
- burn

Yes but as soon as he came back he was paired back with gonchar as the teams second pair shutdown defender.In the playoffs they went with a very big second pair with him and Gryba With gonchar subbing in for gyrba in more offensive roles.

This what i meant by established .Opening day Cowen will be paired with Weircoch on the second pair as that units shutdown defender.

Yes but as soon as he came back he was paired back with gonchar as the teams second pair shutdown defender.In the playoffs they went with a very big second pair with him and Gryba With gonchar subbing in for gyrba in more offensive roles.

This what i meant by established .Opening day Cowen will be paired with Weircoch on the second pair as that units shutdown defender.
- top shelf 15

Same thing with gardiner. So how is he less established? He's played more mins as a top4 dman.

He was one as a rookie, he was one after returning from injury and will be this year..... Exactly like cowen.

His role doesn't matter. As a top4 defenseman gardiner has more mins aged than cowen.


- burn

Yes it does Cowen role is a shut down defender, his position is on the second pair .This has been already established since his rookie season when he played 82 games at that exact position .When he returned from injury he went back to his exact role and position. That he had established himself in the season before.

They both SUCK.

Yes it does Cowen role is a shut down defender, his position is on the second pair .This has been already established since his rookie season when he played 82 games at that exact position .When he returned from injury he went back to his exact role and position. That he had established himself in the season before.
- top shelf 15

Al of that applies exactly to gardiner, except change shutdown d to puck mover.

Their situations are almost identical. One cannot be more established than the other especially when it's the guy with more mins played in the top4 that you claim isn't as established.

They both SUCK.
- Pecafan Fan

sshhhhh, we shouldn't interfere

Al of that applies exactly to gardiner, except change shutdown d to puck mover.

Their situations are almost identical. One cannot be more established than the other especially when it's the guy with more mins played in the top4 that you claim isn't as established.
- burn

Cowen played all 82 games in his rookie season in the second pair in his role .His team made the playoffs with him there .gets hurt comes back late resumes his role in the exact same position from his rookie season team makes playoffs.Did gardener follow this exact pattern or did he not go back to ahl to work on a few things since his role was not yet established on the teams top 4 ???

Gardener hasnt established ,on which pair he will play on first or second .Cowen has his 90 games have all been where he is playing now on the second pair as a the shutdown defender.He is established at his position in the top 4 .And did it with a 82 game sched in which his team made the playoffs with him playing in that exact slot
- top shelf 15

Gardiner is on 2nd pair.... So that is incorrect

Gardiner is on 2nd pair.... So that is incorrect
- burn

So gardener was able to play reg season ahl games ,but not healthy enough to play in toronto,s top 4 to begin the season????As soon as Cowen was healthy he was in his ESTABLISHED position in the top 4

So gardener was able to play reg season ahl games ,but not healthy enough to play in toronto,s top 4 to begin the season????
- top shelf 15

Yeah he wasn't healthy enough. When he was healthy again he was back i. Top 4 just like cowen.

Yeah he wasn't healthy enough.
- burn

i THINK I HAVE BEEN TROLLED

Yeah he wasn't healthy enough. When he was healthy again he was back i. Top 4 just like cowen.
- burn

Gardener showed promise in his rookie season. But he needed work in the defensive zone he wasnt quite ready to be in the top 4 .So they sent him down to the ahl ,and worked with guys like liles ,franson and kostika in the top 4 .While gardener worked on his defensive game in the ahl ,is what you meant right

Gardener showed promise in his rookie season. But he needed work in the defensive zone he wasnt quite ready to be in the top 4 .So they sent him down to the ahl ,and worked with guys like liles ,franson and kostika in the top 4 .While gardener worked on his defensive game in the ahl ,is what you meant right

- top shelf 15

Nope.

Nope.
- burn

Well its what happened , he wasnt ready just like another promising PMD in Weircoch wasnt ready last season .They both posted almost the same numbers to as rookies though

Well its what happened , he wasnt ready just like another promising PMD in Weircoch wasnt ready last season .They both posted almost the same numbers to as rookies though

- top shelf 15

He was injured.

He was injured.
- burn

So he was too injured to play in the nhl, but not the ahl

He was injured.

Why was t cowen playing last year? Did he lose his spot to start?
- burn

Nope he was on IR .When he was deemed healthy enough to play he resumed his ESTABLISHED position ,on the second pair on our nhl team not the ahl one

So he was too injured to play in the nhl, but not the ahl





- top shelf 15

yes....