You have serious serious reading problems. Get help, and fast.

I am not saying that you're saying Someone is better than someone else. That's not what this is about (for the billionth time). I want to know how you can consider a player with 90 NHL games (playing 19/game) is more established than the guy with 87 NHL games playing (21:43mins/game)



GArdiner has played more mins and in a top 4 role than Cowen. But somehow Cowen is more established.
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Has either logged top 4 mins for an 82 game sched???Cowen has therefore his role on the team should be more established as a top 4 defender right???No in your eyes Cowen got hurt Gardener and Franson helped the leafs make the playoffs in a shortened sched playing top 4 mins .But because Cowen got hurt he is nowhere close to being established as Gardener and franson are

Has either logged top 4 mins for an 82 game sched???Cowen has therefore his role on the team should be more established as a top 4 defender right???No in your eyes Cowen got hurt Gardener and Franson helped the leafs make the playoffs in a shortened sched playing top 4 mins .But because Cowen got hurt he is nowhere close to being established as Gardener and franson are

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Are you seriously reading what is written?? It's right in front of you and I didn't say any of that.

(frank) sakes dude.

I didn't say cowen was less established, I'm asking you how he's more established since he's played less mins in the NHL and plays less mins/game.

Can you look at what is written and comment on that??? And not some delusion that you have going??

I didn't say anything about who was/wasn't better. I didn't say Cowen was less established. I'm simply asking you how a player who has played less mins can be construed as more established.?

Are you seriously reading what is written?? It's right in front of you and I didn't say any of that.

(frank) sakes dude.

I didn't say cowen was less established, I'm asking you how he's more established since he's played less mins in the NHL and plays less mins/game.

Can you look at what is written and comment on that??? And not some delusion that you have going??

I didn't say anything about who was/wasn't better. I didn't say Cowen was less established. I'm simply asking you how a player who has played less mins can be construed as more established.?
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Because Cowen played all of his mins as a top 4 defender in his 82 game rookie season on a playoff team.Therefore logically he would have a more established role on his team .Whereas Gardener and Franson have shown they can do the same but only in spurts ,or shortened seasons.Now this isnt to say they arent good defensemen because they both are .But Cowen had proven and or ESTABLISHED himself as a top 4 defender in his role on ottawa,s team the season before

Because Cowen played all of his mins as a top 4 defender in his 82 game rookie season on a playoff team.Therefore logically he would have a more established role on his team .Whereas Gardener and Franson have shown they can do the same but only in spurts ,or shortened seasons.Now this isnt to say they arent good defensemen because they both are .But Cowen had proven and or ESTABLISHED himself as a top 4 defender in his role on ottawa,s team the season before
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Who's logic??? Cown played top 4 as a rookie..... AS did gardiner. How is one more than the other.

Because Cowen played all of his mins as a top 4 defender in his 82 game rookie season on a playoff team.Therefore logically he would have a more established role on his team .Whereas Gardener and Franson have shown they can do the same but only in spurts ,or shortened seasons.Now this isnt to say they arent good defensemen because they both are .But Cowen had proven and or ESTABLISHED himself as a top 4 defender in his role on ottawa,s team the season before
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So did Gardiner. WTF is your point.

Gardiner played more mins as a rookie, and more mins/game as a rookie than Cowen, but isn't as established?

So did Gardiner. WTF is your point.

Gardiner played more mins as a rookie, and more mins/game as a rookie than Cowen, but isn't as established?


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Established how?? Gardener ,s team didnt make the playoffs with him in the top 4 Cowen,s did.Cowen got injured or would have been in ottawa,s top 4 to start the season last year,can the same be said of gardener??

Established how?? Gardener ,s team didnt make the playoffs with him in the top 4 Cowen,s did.Cowen got injured or would have been in ottawa,s top 4 to start the season last year,can the same be said of gardener??
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By the fact that Gardiner has played more mins and plays more mins/game than Cowen?? So if Cowen is established as a top 4 while playing 1691 mins in the NHL then certainly GArdiner HAS TO BE considered just as established while playing 1966 mins?? No??


And the part about the playoffs is irrelevant.

By the fact that Gardiner has played more mins and plays more mins/game than Cowen?? So if Cowen is established as a top 4 while playing 1691 mins in the NHL then certainly GArdiner HAS TO BE considered just as established while playing 1966 mins?? No??


And the part about the playoffs is irrelevant.
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No it isnt,Cowen played top 4 mins one being a full 82 game the other in an injury shortened season ,in which Cowens team made the playoffs.Gardener did not. So when i say more established in role this is what i mean .This isnt to say gardner isnt a top 4 defender because he is ,he just has to prove he can be a top 4 defender on a playoff team for a full 82 games wheras cowen already has

No it isnt,Cowen played top 4 mins one being a full 82 game the other in an injury shortened season ,in which Cowens team made the playoffs.Gardener did not. So when i say more established in role this is what i mean .This isnt to say gardner isnt a top 4 defender because he is ,he just has to prove he can be a top 4 defender on a playoff team for a full 82 games wheras cowen already has

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nonsense.

nonsense.
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Why because you think iam bashing your golden boy Gardener,or because Cowen has proven more in HIS top 4 role as a shut down defender,than gardener has in his ROLE a top pairing two way defender???

Why because you think iam bashing your golden boy Gardener,or because Cowen has proven more in HIS top 4 role as a shut down defender,than gardener has in his ROLE a top pairing two way defender???
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You are seriously delusional.

You are seriously delusional.
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And you are being what??,when Gardener plays a full 82 game sched in the top 4 where his team makes the playoffs get back to me.Otherwise you dont have an arguement,but keep up with the namecalling

And you are being what??,when Gardener plays a full 82 game sched in the top 4 where his team makes the playoffs get back to me.Otherwise you dont have an arguement,but keep up with the namecalling
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Right no argument except for the facts, and truth.


Fact: Making the playoffs isn't relevant to the argument.

Fact: Gardiner has played in the top 4 for a full season

Fact: Gardiner has played more NHL mins in the top 4 than Cowen

Fact: Gardiner mins/game is higher than Cowen

You're the one without an argument.

Right no argument except for the facts, and truth.


Fact: Making the playoffs isn't relevant to the argument.

Fact: Gardiner has played in the top 4 for a full season

Fact: Gardiner has played more NHL mins in the top 4 than Cowen

Fact: Gardiner mins/game is higher than Cowen

You're the one without an argument.
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Fact Cowen ,s role in the top 4 was established in his rookie season ,where he played 82 games as the team second pairing shutdown defender and his team made the playoffs.Gardener role and position on the leaf top4 was not so cut and dry ,therefore he was less established in his role and or position in said top 4

Fact Cowen ,s role in the top 4 was established in his rookie season ,where he played 82 games as the team second pairing shutdown defender and his team made the playoffs.Gardener role and position on the leaf top4 was not so cut and dry ,therefore he was less established in his role and or position in said top 4
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Wrong. Gardiner played more mins and more mins/game than cowen. How does that make him less established? the guy that played less is more established? read what you are writing and look how absurd that sounds.

Wrong. Gardiner played more mins and more mins/game than cowen. How does that make him less established? the guy that played less is more established? read what you are writing and look how absurd that sounds.
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What position and role did in and after his rookie season does cowen have in the top 4???Same exact question for gardener,was he established as the leafs top pairing pmd or was he the second pairing pmd .Had he established his position in the leaf blueline or not???

What position and role did in and after his rookie season does cowen have in the top 4???Same exact question for gardener,was he established as the leafs top pairing pmd or was he the second pairing pmd .Had he established his position in the leaf blueline or not???
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Gardiner played more mins in his rookie season as a top 4 than cowen did. If cowen is established as top 4 how can the guy with more time playing in the top 4 not be as established?

This isn't rocket science.

Gardiner played more mins in his rookie season as a top 4 than cowen did. If cowen is established as top 4 how can the guy with more time playing in the top 4 not be as established?

This isn't rocket science.
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What was gardener,s established position???Number 1 pair pmd or was he the number 2 pairing pmd ??Cowens established position was 2nd pairing shutdown defender

What was gardener,s established position???Number 1 pair pmd or was he the number 2 pairing pmd ??Cowens established position was 2nd pairing shutdown defender
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#2.. .. But that doesn't have any bearing on this. He played top4, and did do more than the guy that you claim is more established.


More mins means he cannot be less established. It's the exact opposite of the definition of the word

#2.. .. But that doesn't have any bearing on this. He played top4, and did do more than the guy that you claim is more established.


More mins means he cannot be less established. It's the exact opposite of the definition of the word
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So he was Toronto,s established Number 2 pmd then ,or was it liles or franson ??Cowen is and was as a rookie the ESTABLISHED 2nd pairing shutdown defender

So he was Toronto,s established Number 2 pmd then ,or was it liles or franson ??Cowen is and was as a rookie the ESTABLISHED 2nd pairing shutdown defender
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Gardiner was.

He played more than those two. Cowen established himself playing 19mins. Game but gardiner hasn't yet while playing 21:45 a game.

Gardiner was.

He played more than those two. Cowen established himself playing 19mins. Game but gardiner hasn't yet while playing 21:45 a game.
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Gardener,s mins are not the point ,the next season where did gardener play ??did he resume his number 2 position out of camp ??No he did not ,cowen came back from his injury to his established position as the teams 2nd pairing shutdown defender .

Also do you think we would hand out 4 YEAR 3.1 MIL A SEASON contract .To someone that hadnt established himself as the team 2nd pair shutdown defender.Seeing as Methot has the top pairing shut down defender job

Gardener,s mins are not the point ,the next season where did gardener play ??did he resume his number 2 position out of camp ??No he did not ,cowen came back from his injury to his established position as the teams 2nd pairing shutdown defender .

Also do you think we would hand out 4 YEAR 3.1 MIL A SEASON contract .To someone that hadnt established himself as the team 2nd pair shutdown defender.Seeing as Methot has the top pairing shut down defender job
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Are you insane? GArdiner didn't resume his role in the top 4 becuase he was injured just like cowen. when gardiner came back he was top 4, just like cowen.

Get a (frank)ing clue.

Gardiner has more mins in the top4 than cowen, but is less established?

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Hurt but still playing in the ahl???Cowen was hurt yes ,but didnt go to the ahl upon his return he went back to his established position and role in the second pair as the pairs shutdown defender.Stop being so combative and see what iam saying .Our team had already established Cowen,s position and role in our top 4 .Whereas Gardener was still looking to establish his place in their top 4 .

Had he established his position in the top 4 .Guys like Franson,Liles and Kosika would not have had to play in the top 4 last season. While Gardener was in the ahl playing mins while recovering from injury

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I see what you are saying and it's wrong. What do you not get.


Gardiner has more mins playing top4 than cowen. To you understand?