What the (frank) does that have to do with anything.


Cowen is a shutdown guy and thus more established because Gardiner and Franson aren't?? WTF is with you. Do you even have a clue what the (frank) you are talking about?


This is (frank)ing hilarious.



Oh, and Gardiner and Franson did play together in the playoffs and they played well.
- burn

Ok has cowen not established himself as the number 2 pairing shut down defender??Who is toronto,s and is he better than cowen ??

For what??i get snickered at for saying ottawa has the more established top 4 in terms of roles on the team.Whereas Toronto has a mixed bag of pmd and two way defenders in theirs
- top shelf 15

Toronto's top 4 1181 NHL games


Ottawa's top 4 695 NHL games



There's good reason why you were questioned on it.


Jared Cowen is established because he played 90 NHL games, whereas Gardiner isn't established because he's played 3 less NHL games.

This is about right ,ottawa has three established in their roles with Methot JC and EK .Wiercoch looks decent in preseason,but is far from proven .The forwards are a mixed bag ,there is a lot of depth with some nice young pieces on the rise.But its a work in progress,the strength of the team up front looks to be down the middle of the ice.But its far from certain

- top shelf 15

As does the Leafs, who BTW have more games under their belt but they aren't as established.

What the (frank) does that have to do with anything.


Cowen is a shutdown guy and thus more established because Gardiner and Franson aren't?? WTF is with you. Do you even have a clue what the (frank) you are talking about?


This is (frank)ing hilarious.



Oh, and Gardiner and Franson did play together in the playoffs and they played well.
- burn

What's with the sandy vag Sens fan?

Mark Masters ‏@markhmasters 16m
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James reimer and drew macintyre are leaf goalies tonight. I expect reimer to go the distance. #TMLtalk
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Mark Masters ‏@markhmasters 21m
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What's with the sandy vag Sens fan?
- As_I_See_It

They lost a preseason game to the Leafs/Marlies.

Toronto's top 4 1181 NHL games


Ottawa's top 4 695 NHL games



There's good reason why you were questioned on it.


Jared Cowen is established because he played 90 NHL games, whereas Gardiner isn't established because he's played 3 less NHL games.
- burn

Again is Gardener is more proven than Weircoch ,but not EK ,same goes for Franson.As far a pmd goes that will be likely in your top 4.But teams rarely put two offensive minded defensemen on the same pair unless its the PP,so in terms of established in role .Would a pairing of Cowen and Weircoch not be established

Having a pretty deep blueline helps
- top shelf 15

I think it all goes together, a good goaltender gives the D confidence to start moving the disc forward, which gets the ball rolling. A bad goaltender on the other hand, can completely paralyze the D, which gets them trapped in their own end, which compounds the problem.

Ottawa and Toronto both have mobile D, by design, since this seems to be the model for success in the NHL going forward.

With Anderson behind him, Karlsson has more leeway joining, or leading, the rush, which makes Ottawa a more dangerous team to play against.

Likewise, in Toronto, the addition of Bernier, with his puck handling skills, will embolden guys like Gardiner now, and Rielly in the near future, to do the same.

As does the Leafs, who BTW have more games under their belt but they aren't as established.
- burn

In role are they ??Gunnerson and Phaneuf are i guess the shutdown element of their pairings .Wheras JC and methot are not confused in their roles as the shutdown element in their pairings

Again is Gardener is more proven than Weircoch ,but not EK ,same goes for Franson.As far a pmd goes that will be likely in your top 4.But teams rarely put two offensive minded defensemen on the same pair unless its the PP,so in terms of established in role .Would a pairing of Cowen and Weircoch not be established
- top shelf 15

If by established you mean set and by set you mean your best option, I'd agree. Otherwise I'm not sure, nor is anyone else on here, what you're trying to convey....

Again is Gardener is more proven than Weircoch ,but not EK ,same goes for Franson.As far a pmd goes that will be likely in your top 4.But teams rarely put two offensive minded defensemen on the same pair unless its the PP,so in terms of established in role .Would a pairing of Cowen and Weircoch not be established
- top shelf 15

NO!! WTF, why can't you grasp this. 140 Nhl games total bewteen 2 guys insn't established.

In role are they ??Gunnerson and Phaneuf are i guess the shutdown element of their pairings .Wheras JC and methot are not confused in their roles as the shutdown element in their pairings

- top shelf 15

I'm not sure what you're trying to prove...? Ottawas top four is better than ours? Are we speaking relatively, or definitively? What's your temperature, right now?

In role are they ??Gunnerson and Phaneuf are i guess the shutdown element of their pairings .Wheras JC and methot are not confused in their roles as the shutdown element in their pairings

- top shelf 15

what??

I think it all goes together, a good goaltender gives the D confidence to start moving the disc forward, which gets the ball rolling. A bad goaltender on the other hand, can completely paralyze the D, which gets them trapped in their own end, which compounds the problem.

Ottawa and Toronto both have mobile D, by design, since this seems to be the model for success in the NHL going forward.

With Anderson behind him, Karlsson has more leeway joining, or leading, the rush, which makes Ottawa a more dangerous team to play against.

Likewise, in Toronto, the addition of Bernier, with his puck handling skills, will embolden guys like Gardiner now, and Rielly in the near future, to do the same.
- The Shrike

Yep Toronto,s lethal combination of forwards and good pmd ,are what drives that team.Ottawa on the other hand doesnt have the forwards or as many offensive minded defenseman as Toronto.But they do have the better of the bigger shut down style defenders,and play a more opportunistic game

I'm not sure what you're trying to prove...? Ottawas top four is better than ours? Are we speaking relatively, or definitively? What's your temperature, right now?
- A_Tree

He's saying Cowen's 90 NHL games make him more established than Gardiner and his 87 or Franson and his 243.

Yep Toronto,s lethal combination of forwards and good pmd ,are what drives that team.Ottawa on the other hand doesnt have the forwards or as many offensive minded defenseman as Toronto.But they do have the better of the bigger shut down style defenders,and play a more opportunistic game

- top shelf 15

I'm not sure what you're trying to prove...? Ottawas top four is better than ours? Are we speaking relatively, or definitively? What's your temperature, right now?
- A_Tree

All i was trying to put across is that ottawa is more established,in terms of roles in our top 4 .JC and Methot are shutdown defenders with EK and Wiercoch being the pmd element of the top 4 .Wheras Toronto,s top 4 seems a bit muddied not in terms of tallent but in terms of what defenseman does what, on each pair

He's saying Cowen's 90 NHL games make him more established than Gardiner and his 87 or Franson and his 243.



- burn

They're all mad because Burke 'nabed Kadri right under their collective noes and instead drafted Cowen as a consolation prize.

All i was trying to put across is that ottawa is more established,in terms of roles in our top 4 .JC and Methot are shutdown defenders with EK and Wiercoch being the pmd element of the top 4 .Wheras Toronto,s top 4 seems a bit muddied not in terms of tallent but in terms of what defenseman does what, on each pair
- top shelf 15

Phanuef and Gunner have been pair together longer than anything the sens have put together...... and Gardiner is in there no doubt.

Not sure how you come to this conclusion. The Leafs players have played together longer, and easily have more total games played. None of what you are saying makes any sense.

They're all mad because Burke 'nabed Kadri right under their collective noes and instead drafted Cowen as a consolation prize.


- A_Tree

All i was trying to put across is that ottawa is more established,in terms of roles in our top 4 .JC and Methot are shutdown defenders with EK and Wiercoch being the pmd element of the top 4 .Wheras Toronto,s top 4 seems a bit muddied not in terms of tallent but in terms of what defenseman does what, on each pair
- top shelf 15

Not at all. I guess you have to watch them consistently to know that...?

Toronto's top four know their job descriptions and they aren't as simple as labeling them: PMD 1, PMD 2 ; SDD 1 TWD 1 etc....

- Fruitcakenipple

Ottawa cant run and gun right now with Toronto right now ,this is pretty much fact .We need to grind down Toronto,s speed and skill up front ,with our big mobile defense corps .Cowen,Methot and Gryba are all over 6.4 and 230+ pounds its our only real advantage we have at the moment

- Fruitcakenipple

Ottawa cant run and gun right now with Toronto right now ,this is pretty much fact .We need to grind down Toronto,s speed and skill up front ,with our big mobile defense corps .Cowen,Methot and Gryba are all over 6.4 and 230+ pounds its our only real advantage we have at the moment
- top shelf 15

Ottawa cant run and gun right now with Toronto right now ,this is pretty much fact .We need to grind down Toronto,s speed and skill up front ,with our big mobile defense corps .Cowen,Methot and Gryba are all over 6.4 and 230+ pounds its our only real advantage we have at the moment
- top shelf 15

Not too worried..... Didn't exactly work for Boston.