WTF ,are you for real .All i said is that Ottawa,s defense looks more established in the top4 than Toronto,s With JC,Methot being the two shut down physical types ,paired with Weircoch and EK being the two pmd .And you start this BS ,how does Toronto,s top 4 look like ,Gunnerson and phaneuf with franson and gardener??
- top shelf 15

Did he just overwhelm u with facts??..

Did he just overwhelm u with facts??..
- Fruitcakenipple

seems so.

Start what BS???

How is Cowen more established with 90NHL games than Franson @ 243 or Gardiner @ 87?
- burn

As a shut down defender,cowen did prove himself capable of playing that roll in his rookie season ,has Franson or Gardener proven that they can be shut down defenders???

As a shut down defender,cowen did prove himself capable of playing that roll in his rookie season ,has Franson or Gardener proven that they can be shut down defenders???

- top shelf 15

Come on man.... this went from more established to shut down roles. Cowen is not an established NHL Dman at this stage in his career any more than Mark Frazer.

Ill dumb it down for burn ,Ottawa,s shut down defenders in top 4 are JC and Methot,our two pmd in the top4 appear to be Weircoch and EK ,Now i said in terms of established pairings i give the edge to ottawa.Over what should be Phaneuf,Gardener Franson ,Gunnerson

As a shut down defender,cowen did prove himself capable of playing that roll in his rookie season ,has Franson or Gardener proven that they can be shut down defenders???

- top shelf 15

Cowens proved nothing.

Ill dumb it down for burn ,Ottawa,s shut down defenders in top 4 are JC and Methot,our two pmd in the top4 appear to be Weircoch and EK ,Now i said in terms of established pairings i give the edge to ottawa.Over what should be Phaneuf,Gardener Franson ,Gunnerson
- top shelf 15

So Weircoch and his 50 or so NHL games and Cowen with his 90 or so NHL games are established players in this league all of a sudden?

Why are we going with top 4 and not 6 dmen? What the hell is wrong with you, man?

Ill dumb it down for burn ,Ottawa,s shut down defenders in top 4 are JC and Methot,our two pmd in the top4 appear to be Weircoch and EK ,Now i said in terms of established pairings i give the edge to ottawa.Over what should be Phaneuf,Gardener Franson ,Gunnerson
- top shelf 15

So Weircoch and his 50 or so NHL games and Cowen with his 90 or so NHL games are established players in this league all of a sudden?

Why are we going with top 4 and not 6 dmen? What the hell is wrong with you, man?
- Gunslinger

I think he upset over a pre-season loss to the Leafs...Gonna be tough going for him when the Leafs beat up on his Sens in the regular season..

- Fruitcakenipple

Gardiner has played more NHL games than Weircoch and Cowen, yet he is the least established of the 3....yea....same with Franson and Gunnar.

I think he upset over a pre-season loss to the Leafs...Gonna be tough going for him when the Leafs beat up on his Sens in the regular season..
- Fruitcakenipple

I think what hurts him the most was that the Leafs won and put out a rather lacklustre performance in the process. The regular season should be fun, with the Sens being over hyped and the Leafs being underrated. Just like Topshelf is doing now.

ahhh, A Toronto/Ottawa arguement... me likey!!

As a shut down defender,cowen did prove himself capable of playing that roll in his rookie season ,has Franson or Gardener proven that they can be shut down defenders???

- top shelf 15

What in the (frank) is this??


Since either are, or ever will be no.... how does that matter??


Gardiner I'd say proved in his rookie season that he's capable of playing his role (PMD) as good or better than Cowen has at this point.


You still don't get the point.

ahhh, A Toronto/Ottawa arguement... me likey!!
- steve362

Habs suck. Canucks reek.

I think he upset over a pre-season loss to the Leafs...Gonna be tough going for him when the Leafs beat up on his Sens in the regular season..
- Fruitcakenipple

I could care less ,why dont you read what i wrote on the other post before you label me a sore loser.The leafs have a great team,i said it close between the two teams Leafs have the advantage at forward,goaltending is a draw,sens have the edge at defense.The top 4 in ottawa does appear set,therfore more established in its roll on the team Can the same be said of toronto,s top4 ???

Ill dumb it down for burn ,Ottawa,s shut down defenders in top 4 are JC and Methot,our two pmd in the top4 appear to be Weircoch and EK ,Now i said in terms of established pairings i give the edge to ottawa.Over what should be Phaneuf,Gardener Franson ,Gunnerson
- top shelf 15

I'll dumb it down for you top self, JC isn't any more established than guys like Gardiner or Franson.

and this isn't about skill.

Habs suck. Canucks reek.
- Gunslinger

Everyone Sucks... Go Colts Go!!!

What in the (frank) is this??


Since either are, or ever will be no.... how does that matter??


Gardiner I'd say proved in his rookie season that he's capable of playing his role (PMD) as good or better than Cowen has at this point.


You still don't get the point.
- burn

No its you that isnt seeing it,Is our top 4 more established in its roll than toronto,s or not???This was my point but you chose to see it as a Attack on the leafs in general

So Weircoch and his 50 or so NHL games and Cowen with his 90 or so NHL games are established players in this league all of a sudden?

Why are we going with top 4 and not 6 dmen? What the hell is wrong with you, man?
- Gunslinger

90+50 > 243 in terms of being established.

Franson has played more NHL games than Cowen and weirchoich combined, but they are established and he's still a kid proving himself.

I'll dumb it down for you top self, JC isn't any more established than guys like Gardiner or Franson.

and this isn't about skill.
- burn

Again what is Cowen roll on ottawa

Gardiner has played more NHL games than Weircoch and Cowen, yet he is the least established of the 3....yea....same with Franson and Gunnar.
- Gunslinger

my point exactly.


But Cowen is a better shutdown guy that Gardiner is as a shutdown guy. Case closed.

I could care less ,why dont you read what i wrote on the other post before you label me a sore loser.The leafs have a great team,i said it close between the two teams Leafs have the advantage at forward,goaltending is a draw,sens have the edge at defense.The top 4 in ottawa does appear set,therfore more established in its roll on the team Can the same be said of toronto,s top4 ???
- top shelf 15

The Leafs have a good team, not a great team. Great teams win Cups.

Toronto's top 4 is as established as Ottawas. We get it, EK is an elite talent, but beyond that Ottawa doesn't have anything more proven or established than Toronto. In fact, one could make the case Toronto's top 4 has far more experience than Ottawas top 4 and have proven more at the NHL level. Its hard to tell which side gets the edge here. Obviously EK tips the scale heavily in Ottawas favour but I would take Franson, Gunnar and Gardiner over Cowen, Weircoch and Methot any day of the week. Even on grupdays and trahdays, and those days don't even exist. Yet.

No its you that isnt seeing it,Is our top 4 more established in its roll than toronto,s or not???This was my point but you chose to see it as a Attack on the leafs in general
- top shelf 15

It totally is..... Cowen has established himself more in his 90 games than Franson in his 243 or gardiner has in his 87 games.

You chose to turn this into a skills thing which it wasn't. Missing the point.

No its you that isnt seeing it,Is our top 4 more established in its roll than toronto,s or not???This was my point but you chose to see it as a Attack on the leafs in general
- top shelf 15

I think you're seeing this as an attack on the Sens as much as you claim people see this as an attack on the Leafs. Your top 4 is not more established. Sorry, but it isn't. Outside of Karlsson, that D is quite unimpressive, which is why you're here babbling about top4 and not 6-7 dmen.

I could care less ,why dont you read what i wrote on the other post before you label me a sore loser.The leafs have a great team,i said it close between the two teams Leafs have the advantage at forward,goaltending is a draw,sens have the edge at defense.The top 4 in ottawa does appear set,therfore more established in its roll on the team Can the same be said of toronto,s top4 ???
- top shelf 15

Colorado's top 4 seems set to start the year. They must have the advantage over the leafs too.