How would dropping three fourth line (at best) forwards help the Flyers sign another $3+ million defensemen?
- Feanor

ehn... I'm just shedding players I don't care about. Any savings will be applied.

You can demote Couturier or B. Schenn the day before the season (in a paper move), then after you put Pronger on LTIR the next day, you can call him back up (another paper move).
- bradleyc4

Wasn't this the plan if they were to have signed Cleary?

Well obviously you don't like him. I'd hardly call him over rated. It's not like people are screaming his name from the turrets. He is what he is. He's a very solid defenseman with some limited offensive skill. He's certainly not a turnstile as you described. While I like him and probably over value what he brings to a team a little as a defenseman and a team leader you certainly undervalue him.

I would never tout him as a replacement for Grossmann. They aren't the same player. I'm not sure if I would trade him out for any of our defenders but what I said was, if we could have added him, that would have been a great addition.
- mayorofangrytown

i realize you were not the one saying he'd be a good alternative to Grossmann. And it isn't really so much that I don't like him, I just don't think be brings anything we don't already have. I will also admit my use of "turnstile" might have been a little harsh. I just don't think he's what we need. He's not a better puck mover than any of our top puck mover types, and he's not a better defender than our top stay-at-home guys. At best he'd be our sixth/seventh d-man and we're already spending too much on D to have a guy at his salary as our sixth or seventh d-man.

I think the Flyers would be better off not trading Grossmann or Meszaros and starting the season with this team. Pronger would not have to be put on LTIR right away.

FORWARDS
Scott Hartnell ($4.750m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Jakub Voracek ($4.250m)
Brayden Schenn ($3.110m) / Vincent Lecavalier ($4.500m) / Wayne Simmonds ($3.975m)
Michael Raffl ($0.793m) / Sean Couturier ($1.375m) / Matt Read ($0.900m)
Maxime Talbot ($1.750m) / Adam Hall ($0.600m) / Zac Rinaldo ($0.750m)
DEFENSEMEN
Kimmo Timonen ($6.000m) / Luke Schenn ($3.600m)
Mark Streit ($5.250m) / Braydon Coburn ($4.500m)
Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m) / Nicklas Grossmann ($3.500m)
Erik Gustafsson ($1.000m) /
Chris Pronger ($4.941m) /
GOALTENDERS
Ray Emery ($1.650m)
Steve Mason ($1.500m)
OTHER
Buyout: Oskars Bartulis ($0.100m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $66,726,856; BONUSES: $2,800,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $373,144

Wasn't this the plan if they were to have signed Cleary?
- Hextall271

They still have to be cap compliant on Sept. 30. And Pronger can't go on LTIR until Oct. 1.

The Flyers can demote Schenn/Couturier/Rosehill until they're right under the cap, use closer to the full LTIR for Pronger, and recall those 3 and still have significant room to add a player at the TDL. Remember, acquiring a player means you only have to pay the pro-rated portion tot he cap, not a full one.
- jmatchett383

You can not "bank" LTIR. I am not sure how it would work for acquiring a player at the TDL i.e. Right now they would be 2.8 under the cushion that LTIR would give. I wonder if they can acquire a $2.8 million player at the deadline

Lets take a poll for top 3 possible whipping boys for this years squad. I have in reverse order............drumroll please.......

#3 Brayden Schenn - He needs to have a breakout year. If you look at his point total from last year, one could argue that he is on track. However he received ample PP time and also had a high percentage of Offensive zone starts. His two way game needs improvement, and he needs to stay on his skates more in the offensive zone. I dont care if he pots the same amount of points, if he brings his physical game and a two way game. He will be fine. Him being the main cog in the Richards deal is a big influence on the list

#2 Jake Voracek - His breakout year last year brings him more into focus for this list. He is now a bonafide top winger. The Flyers are putting their faith in him to remain in that role for years to come. Any decline in his game will throw a major monkey wrench into the Flyers plans. He needs to step up his two way game and lay off the dumplings, and he should be fine.

And now for the #1 whipping boy for this years squad...............


#1 Mark Streit - Welcome to Philly!! The ink has barely dried on his overpayment paperwork and the time has come to recognize. Luckily for him Streit doesn't have big expectations from the team (As far as being a top pairing guy in all situations like the contract would suggest). This is also a problem. Most fans and media are expecting him to be much more than he is going to provide for the team. He will see plenty of minutes on the PP and will no doubt bank the points we expect of him. Can he stay away from the defensive zone Carlish turnovers and just the general lack of own end awareness that has been his achilles heel enough to thrive here? I wonder....the cards are stacked against him.

I'm not playing a hypathical game with you today. Flyers are too close to the cap. They have more high priced defenseman then they can afford. One has to be moved.
- youarewrong

It's not a hypothetical game, it's facts. The Flyers do not have to move a defenseman due to the Cap.

You can not "bank" LTIR. I am not sure how it would work for acquiring a player at the TDL i.e. Right now they would be 2.8 under the cushion that LTIR would give. I wonder if they can acquire a $2.8 million player at the deadline
- phatpat44

I believe they can. As I understand, it's like this:

Scenario A: The Flyers have $2.8m left in LTIR relief to play with. They can acquire a player whose AAV (i.e. cap hit) is $2.8m, maxing out their LTIR spending.

Scenario B: The Flyers remain $2.8m below the cap up to the deadline (I know, stay with me here). They can actually acquire a player of significantly higher AAV than $2.8m due to pro-rated cap hit/banked cap dollars.

woah, page stretch thursday is in effect

If the Flyers send Laughton down and trade Meszaros they will have 2.873 million in cap space without placing Pronger on the LTIR. That means they will have a lot of money to aquire a significant roster piece at the TDL.

If you keep Laughton and dont trade a defenseman then Pronger goes on LTIR and the Flyers have no room to do anything at the TDL.
- youarewrong

That is not true. The Flyers would have Cap space to make a move at the deadline if they keep all of the defenseman and place Pronger on LTIR.

Ok, who broke the page?

I believe they can. As I understand, it's like this:

Scenario A: The Flyers have $2.8m left in LTIR relief to play with. They can acquire a player whose AAV (i.e. cap hit) is $2.8m, maxing out their LTIR spending.

Scenario B: The Flyers remain $2.8m below the cap up to the deadline (I know, stay with me here). They can actually acquire a player of significantly higher AAV than $2.8m due to pro-rated cap hit/banked cap dollars.
- BulliesPhan87

I can't believe this will continue to be a discussion for at least a couple more years.

woah, page stretch thursday is in effect
- BulliesPhan87

Wider than Leighton's 5-hole.

Chuck Gormley @ChuckGormleyCSN
#CapitalsTalk Caps LW Jason Chimera on hybrid icing: 'I hate it.' Many of his teammates agree and believe it will get voted down.

I believe they can. As I understand, it's like this:

Scenario A: The Flyers have $2.8m left in LTIR relief to play with. They can acquire a player whose AAV (i.e. cap hit) is $2.8m, maxing out their LTIR spending.

Scenario B: The Flyers remain $2.8m below the cap up to the deadline (I know, stay with me here). They can actually acquire a player of significantly higher AAV than $2.8m due to pro-rated cap hit/banked cap dollars.
- BulliesPhan87

Scenario A is not correct. The poster is correct. LTIR Cap space cannot be banked. Each day it is not used, the amount of cap space gets smaller and smaller. And the player they can afford gets less and less.

Ok, who broke the page?
- MBFlyerfan

Just5's elipsical drumroll

Scenario A is not correct. The poster is correct. LTIR Cap space cannot be banked. Each day it is not used, the amount of cap space gets smaller and smaller. And the player they can afford gets less and less.
- MJL

I'm not sure I understand, and I'm not sure how to ask for clarification (that is, word the question). Seemed p simple to me.

Correct me if I'm wrong but don't they have to report for 24hrs and Pronger can't go on LTIR till puck drop of first game therefore we would not have Schenn or Couts for the first game
- AGL_91

It's not the puck drop, it's 5:00 EST on day 1 of the Season, which is Oct 1. The FLyers don't play until Oct 2nd.

In reference to freeing up more cap space for the trade deadline. Wouldn't it be better to just keep Grossmann and Mez instead of freeing up cap space so the Flyers can try to acquire a defenseman at the TDL like Mez or Grossmann! I can guarantee you that the price for defenseman at the TDL will be much higher than right now for Mez or Grossmann.

The money does allow you to pursue a better player than those two, if available, but how often have top pairing dmen been available at the deadline? It also gives you the opportunity to add to the forwards if need be, but most of the time the Flyers are shopping for dmen at the deadline.

I just don't see the point in trading one just to get more money for the TDL. I'd rather just keep them all. It wouldn't be the worst thing in the world to give Kimmo a night off on back to backs once in a while.

I think the Flyers would be better off not trading Grossmann or Meszaros and starting the season with this team. Pronger would not have to be put on LTIR right away.

FORWARDS
Scott Hartnell ($4.750m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Jakub Voracek ($4.250m)
Brayden Schenn ($3.110m) / Vincent Lecavalier ($4.500m) / Wayne Simmonds ($3.975m)
Michael Raffl ($0.793m) / Sean Couturier ($1.375m) / Matt Read ($0.900m)
Maxime Talbot ($1.750m) / Adam Hall ($0.600m) / Zac Rinaldo ($0.750m)
DEFENSEMEN
Kimmo Timonen ($6.000m) / Luke Schenn ($3.600m)
Mark Streit ($5.250m) / Braydon Coburn ($4.500m)
Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m) / Nicklas Grossmann ($3.500m)
Erik Gustafsson ($1.000m) /
Chris Pronger ($4.941m) /
GOALTENDERS
Ray Emery ($1.650m)
Steve Mason ($1.500m)
OTHER
Buyout: Oskars Bartulis ($0.100m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $66,726,856; BONUSES: $2,800,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $373,144
- Feanor

The fact the Flyers have no forwards making 5 million, and both goalies making peanuts, suggests the defense core is grossly overpaid.

I'm not sure I understand, and I'm not sure how to ask for clarification. Seemed p simple to me.
- BulliesPhan87

I'll explain it. The Cap is calculated daily. Cap space under the Upper Limit can be banked. Which means if you have 3M in space under the UPper limit, that Cap space stays the same, as the Season goes on.

LTIR Cap space cannot be banked. Let's say the Season is 100 days. And you have 3M in LTIR Cap space. Which means you have 30,000 a day to use. If one day goes by, that it isn't used. You now have 2.97M of LTIR Cap sapce. It shrinks as the Season goes on. It is use it or lose it.

Just5's elipsical drumroll
- BulliesPhan87

Somebody fix it please?

I'll explain it. The Cap is calculated daily. Cap space under the Upper Limit can be banked. Which means if you have 3M in space under the UPper limit, that Cap space stays the same, as the Season goes on.

LTIR Cap space cannot be banked. Let's say the Season is 100 days. And you have 3M in LTIR Cap space. Which means you have 30,000 a day to use. If one day goes by, that it isn't used. You now have 2.97M of LTIR Cap sapce. It shrinks as the Season goes on. It is use it or lose it.
- MJL

Isn't the acquired player's cap cost pro-rated? Or am I to understand you have to account for their cap cost for the portion of the season prior to acquiring them?

EDIT: I hate the salary cap.

The fact the Flyers have no forwards making 5 million, and both goalies making peanuts, suggests the defense core is grossly overpaid.
- PLindbergh31

You can't really look at it that way. I hate when people want to trade dmen just because they overall unit costs a lot. It's not like the Flyers are sacraficing money for forwards in order to acquire more defenseman.

Pronger isn't playing while Mez and Timmo have one year left. Next season when G and, hopefully, Read make more money the defense spending ( ) will go down.