The thing is I want to use Pronger LTIR. I would rather the team have cap space to back to get a significant piece at the trade deadline if we need it. Maybe a bigtime scoring winger.
- youarewrong

Ideally you don't want to use LTIR. But the Flyers have no choice. You can't bank LTIR Cap space. As it stands now, the Flyers will be limited at the trade deadline. But a lot can happen between now and then.

Yes, Timonen and Coburn are willing to block shots, but they are more likely to try and stick check first, and they aren't the best at it either. Some people are just better at blocking shots, not sure why.

One of the reasons I like Grossmann so much is because after we lost Pronger, we didn't have the front of the net presence that could block shots and move players. Grossmann did that and instantly made the defense better. Now we have Schenn with Grossmann. I think the best possible combo for our defense is...

Timonen-Schenn... puck mover offensive and defensive responcible with big hitter and shot blocker.

Streit-Coburn... Offensive puck mover prone to defensive mistakes with Coburn who is better when asked to play a defensive role.

Grossmann-Gustefsson... Big time shot blocker defensive d-man that can hit with an offensive guy that needs someone that can cover his mistakes.
- youarewrong

This scouting report from THN indicates Timonen's shot blocking as an asset:

http://forecaster.thehock...ews/hockey/player.php?123

Timonen's body and ice positioning are superior so I'm not really sure where the stick checking criticism comes from.

This isn't even remotely accurate.
- MBFlyerfan

Meh I didnt mean a leader in overrall ice time. I specifically remember watching a bruin OT playoff game and the commentators saying he was their leader on ice time in the game. Looking at the boxscores he comes in behind Seidenberg and Chara in ice time generally.

Me personally I'd take Ference or Scuderi over Grossman any day. Considering contracts, injury history, play style, etc., all of it.

Few old issues of Highlights magazine with several of the Word Searches completed in crayon.
- jmatchett383

But the find the pictures page was untouched right? Right?

Meh I didnt mean a leader in overrall ice time. I specifically remember watching a bruin OT playoff game and the commentators saying he was their leader on ice time in the game. Looking at the boxscores he comes in behind Seidenberg and Chara in ice time generally.

Me personally I'd take Ference or Scuderi over Grossman any day. Considering contracts, injury history, play style, etc., all of it.
- Just5

Does what team they played on and how those teams played, have any bearing on forming that opinion?

Lets talk about this season though. What does this team need more. Meszaros with a 4 million cap hit and injury problems with 1 year left or Grossmann who is cheaper on the cap hit, and signed longer, and is a leaders in blocked shots. Something no-one else except Schenn is willing to do on this team of defenders...
- youarewrong

I dont think Grossman's contract in the future is an advantage. Esp with Lauridsen and possibly Morin banging down the door. Grossman has injury problems, they are in the same basket with regards to injury concern as far as I'm concerned. I'm comfortable moving forward with Lauridsen so I'm more willing to deal Grossman. I realize I might be the only one.

Does what team they played on and how those teams played, have any bearing on forming that opinion?
- MJL

Sure it does. They are good players that were on good teams. They had a lot to do with their success. I know what your getting at, style of play. We could debate that all day

I want Mez out of here. We can complain about Grossmann's injury history, but Mez hasn't had a healthy year in two years.

Outta here.

Meh I didnt mean a leader in overrall ice time. I specifically remember watching a bruin OT playoff game and the commentators saying he was their leader on ice time in the game. Looking at the boxscores he comes in behind Seidenberg and Chara in ice time generally.

Me personally I'd take Ference or Scuderi over Grossman any day. Considering contracts, injury history, play style, etc., all of it.
- Just5

I'm a huge Ference fan. I like everything he brings to the game and his team. He would have been a great acquisition if we had the room. I'd have dropped Rosehill, Newbury and Hall if I could have wedged him in. He's a great fit on a young Oilers team though.

Sure it does. They are good players that were on good teams. They had a lot to do with their success. I know what your getting at, style of play. We could debate that all day
- Just5

Put Grossmann on those teams in the same situations, he's just as good if not better.

I dont think Grossman's contract in the future is an advantage. Esp with Lauridsen and possibly Morin banging down the door. Grossman has injury problems, they are in the same basket with regards to injury concern as far as I'm concerned. I'm comfortable moving forward with Lauridsen so I'm more willing to deal Grossman. I realize I might be the only one.
- Just5

You're not the only one -- the Flyers have one too many defensemen, if Erik Gustafsson makes the team. They can't keep them all; somebody's going to have to go, barring injury over the rest of the preseason.

Timonen and Streit are going nowhere, just based on their deals. Everybody else is eligible for trade because that's just the way the NHL is.

Add to this it is more than likely our own defense gets decimated. Then we will be happy to have them.
- MBFlyerfan

Agreed, if our blueline gets injured we won't have to move assets, but if it's someone else in need of Defensive depth the trade value of our D-men goes up.

I have no issues using Gus as our 7th D man and rotating him in with Mez or even Kimmo to keep him Healthy down the long stretch. And that's a big IF nobody gets injured.

I want Mez out of here. We can complain about Grossmann's injury history, but Mez hasn't had a healthy year in two years.

Outta here.
- KGBflyers10

Looks pretty healthy now.

Agreed, if our blueline gets injured we won't have to move assets, but if it's someone else in need of Defensive depth the trade value of our D-men goes up.

I have no issues using Gus as our 7th D man and rotating him in with Mez or even Kimmo to keep him Healthy down the long stretch. And that's a big IF nobody gets injured.
- flyler

There's a number of games where Timonen plays, when he should probably sit out. I'd like to Flyers keep him out in those situations. But I don't think they'd tell him he's not playing when he says he's ready to go.

I dont think Grossman's contract in the future is an advantage. Esp with Lauridsen and possibly Morin banging down the door. Grossman has injury problems, they are in the same basket with regards to injury concern as far as I'm concerned. I'm comfortable moving forward with Lauridsen so I'm more willing to deal Grossman. I realize I might be the only one.
- Just5

I don't really disagree, but I would rather move Mezaros now. However I would most likely be open to moving Grossmann prior to next season as Lauridsen, Alt and perhaps even Morin could all be challenging for a spot by next years camp.

There's a number of games where Timonen plays, when he should probably sit out. I'd like to Flyers keep him out in those situations. But I don't think they'd tell him he's not playing when he says he's ready to go.
- MJL

I happen to agree with you, but they had to all but put a gun to his head to get him to miss games towards the end of last season, when they were pretty much already out of it. The guy is an old school warrior and I can't see them forcing him to sit if he feels he can play.

This scouting report from THN indicates Timonen's shot blocking as an asset:

http://forecaster.thehock...ews/hockey/player.php?123

Timonen's body and ice positioning are superior so I'm not really sure where the stick checking criticism comes from.
- johndewar

heiswrong



also, for those trumpeting Fernece, he is in no way an adequate replacement for Grossmann. He's significantly smaller (5' 11" 189 lbs vs. 6' 4"240 lbs), he's much, much less physical, and far worse defensively than Grossmann. Completely different types of players. Grossmann is a second pairing rock. Nothing flashy but solid, dependable, and physical all the time. Ference is a turnstile defensively with slightly better offensive skills.

Darren Dreger ‏@DarrenDreger 1m
Phil places Y.Danis, B.Holmstrom, KNewbury, M.A. Bourdon on Waivers.

I happen to agree with you, but they had to all but put a gun to his head to get him to miss games towards the end of last season, when they were pretty much already out of it. The guy is an old school warrior and I can't see them forcing him to sit if he feels he can play.
- BiggE

I agree, it's really wishful thinking.

Darren Dreger ‏@DarrenDreger 1m
Phil places Y.Danis, B.Holmstrom, KNewbury, M.A. Bourdon on Waivers.
- phatpat44

Interesting that they were able to waive Bourdon, as I didn't know he was cleared by a Doctor.

I'm a huge Ference fan. I like everything he brings to the game and his team. He would have been a great acquisition if we had the room. I'd have dropped Rosehill, Newbury and Hall if I could have wedged him in. He's a great fit on a young Oilers team though.
- mayorofangrytown

overrated imo. wouldn't take him over any of our top guys. maybe as a sixth man over Gus, but I'd still rather see what Gus can do this year, and he costs less than Ference would.

Interesting that they were able to waive Bourdon, as I didn't know he was cleared by a Doctor.
- MJL

Yea, I know. And I think Holmer/Snider? said that MAB would go on LTIR to start the season with Pronger

How can you not agree there, with the situation they had last Season? No such thing as a logjam at defense. I agree it's not ideal to have that much money wrapped up in a defense. But the Flyers lead defenseman is 38. Two players, Meszaros and Grossmann, have injury concerns. One of them goes down, or worse, tow of them do. We'll be glad they have that depth.
- MJL

Sure we would be happy to have the depth, but its not feasable to keep that. If one goes down, then Gil or Gervais comes in. If 2 then Manning or Laurdesen or Alt comes up until one of them returns. Or at that time you trade for someone that will help if its a long term issue.

Darren Dreger ‏@DarrenDreger 1m
Phil places Y.Danis, B.Holmstrom, KNewbury, M.A. Bourdon on Waivers.
- phatpat44

How can they waive Bourdon? I thought injured players couldn't be waived.

heiswrong



also, for those trumpeting Fernece, he is in no way an adequate replacement for Grossmann. He's significantly smaller (5' 11" 189 lbs vs. 6' 4"240 lbs), he's much, much less physical, and far worse defensively than Grossmann. Completely different types of players. Grossmann is a second pairing rock. Nothing flashy but solid, dependable, and physical all the time. Ference is a turnstile defensively with slightly better offensive skills.
- BringBack25

A player like Ference is made to look a whole lot better then he is, due to the team structure and defensive support that he got playing on that Boston team. In the same way that defenseman such as Coburn was made to look worse then he is, playing on a poor defensive team. Not saying that he didn't play poorly at times. And by the same token, some look at Lauridsen and overrate his readiness for the NHL, based on a handful of games, where the Flyers drastically simplified their style of play, to a far less aggressive and more defensively responsible style. Perspective is everything.