Yep. I dont know what deals your looking at. Look at the Scuderi, Ference deals. Cheaper cap hits, better players. I know their a bit older but they dont come with as much injury concern. Grossman is making a premium to be a 3rd pairing guy.
- Just5

So to replace Grossmann all the Flyers would need to do is outbid other teams for 34 year old defensive defensemen. Maybe offer five years instead of the four year deals Scuderi and Ference got.

They're better players. both have won cups and were big pieces of those runs. ference led the bruins in TOI in playoff games last year. Different style? They both bring better puck moving ability and offense. Id take them in my own end of the ice any day. they are still making less on the cap. grossman's concussion history makes the age comparison a moot point.

all im saying is lets not pretend there aren't Dmen of Grossmans caliber readily available in UFA at his current rate or less
- Just5

Lets talk about this season though. What does this team need more. Meszaros with a 4 million cap hit and injury problems with 1 year left or Grossmann who is cheaper on the cap hit, and signed longer, and is a leaders in blocked shots. Something no-one else except Schenn is willing to do on this team of defenders...

Few old issues of Highlights magazine with several of the Word Searches completed in crayon.
- jmatchett383

Just scored free Eagles tix for tonight!
- jmatchett383

You should check where the seats are... If they are bad seats you could always take me, I can get you into the handicap section, which is usually better seats.

Yep. I dont know what deals your looking at. Look at the Scuderi, Ference deals. Cheaper cap hits, better players. I know their a bit older but they dont come with as much injury concern. Grossman is making a premium to be a 3rd pairing guy.

We'll disagree on Lauridsen also. I think hes capable of filling a # 6 role playing 15 mins, Esp if you pair him with Streit
- Just5

They aren't better players. Ference especially is not close to Grossmann as a player. I'd be fine with Scuderi. But it's one player, and he would have to agree to play for the Flyers. We've seen in the past how chasing Free Agents can backfire. Grossmann is not making a permium. And I don't consider him to be a 3rd pair defenseman. He's going to play in key defensive zone and PK situations, close to 20 minutes a night. Lauridsen and Streit together is not a pairing that you want to put together. Lauridsen would struggle, and Streit is a player that you want to unleash offensively, and is not known to be a solid defender.

I agree that his development could be better at the NHL level but I don't think it would hurt it sending him back. You don't hear players washing out because they were developed too slowly. I disagree about the world juniors though and his trade value. Every GM watches and a prospect's value can soar with a great performance. Brayden Schenn was once ranked as the top prospect in hockey and a lot of that was because he performed so well at the World Juniors
- psuhockey

I don't think it would wash him out or hurt him. But I want the player moving forward in his developmental curve. And I think the NHL is the best place for that. Brayden Schenn's trade value hasn't changed. Should they really base what they do with Laughton on how it would affect his trade value? Why do they want to trade him?

Lets talk about this season though. What does this team need more. Meszaros with a 4 million cap hit and injury problems with 1 year left or Grossmann who is cheaper on the cap hit, and signed longer, and is a leaders in blocked shots. Something no-one else except Schenn is willing to do on this team of defenders...
- youarewrong

no mention of grossmann's injury problems?

I'm wondering if we can get a decent 3rd line winger for Grossmann. As much as I would rather keep him over Meszaros, if we can get a decent 3rd line winger out of the deal and sign Gil cheap as the 7th d-man, then why not?

Hartnell-Giroux-Voracek
Schenn-Lecavalier-Simmonds
Read-Couturier-playerx
Talbot-Hall-Rinaldo
Rosehill

Timonen-Schenn
Streit-Coburn
Gustefsson-Meszaros
Gill

Mason
Emery.
- youarewrong

No way in hell would I trade Grossmann for a decent 3rd line Winger. When you can acquire that player if needed at the trade deadline for a 3rd round pick. Defense is a far more important position then 3rd line Wing. And as we saw last year, you need depth. Make that type of deal, and Meszaros breaks down again, or Timonen get's hurt, what are you left with. That deal would be a mistake in my opinion.

So to replace Grossmann all the Flyers would need to do is outbid other teams for 34 year old defensive defensemen. Maybe offer five years instead of the four year deals Scuderi and Ference got.
- Feanor

Exactly!

They're better players. both have won cups and were big pieces of those runs. ference led the bruins in TOI in playoff games last year. Different style? They both bring better puck moving ability and offense. Id take them in my own end of the ice any day. they are still making less on the cap. grossman's concussion history makes the age comparison a moot point.

all im saying is lets not pretend there aren't Dmen of Grossmans caliber readily available in UFA at his current rate or less
- Just5

Ference did not lead the Bruins in time on ice last year in the playoffs. I don't even need to look that up. They aren't better players then Grossmann is. They both played on a team that played excellent team defense. Grossmann has missed how much time due to a concussion? Players do heal and recover from concussions. When your looking to sign players like Scuderi and ference, you aren't doing it for their offense. The 8 more points they might score more then Grossmann will, is not going to tip the scales.
Defenseman of Grossmann's caliber aren't readily available in Free Agency. Not impossible, but not readlily available.

Lets talk about this season though. What does this team need more. Meszaros with a 4 million cap hit and injury problems with 1 year left or Grossmann who is cheaper on the cap hit, and signed longer, and is a leaders in blocked shots. Something no-one else except Schenn is willing to do on this team of defenders...
- youarewrong

Timonen is certainly willing to block shots. So is Coburn. But I agree with the overall premise.

No way in hell would I trade Grossmann for a decent 3rd line Winger. When you can acquire that player if needed at the trade deadline for a 3rd round pick. Defense is a far more important position then 3rd line Wing. And as we saw last year, you need depth. Make that type of deal, and Meszaros breaks down again, or Timonen get's hurt, what are you left with. That deal would be a mistake in my opinion.
- MJL

I would rather not trade Grossmann either, I hope you can pick that from my other posts. I think he is just as important of a role as Schenn on this team. However, it's likely it is either going to be Grossmann or Meszaros that gets traded. If its Meszaros I would expect... what about a 3rd round pick. For Grossmann I think you could get more, which would be the reason the Flyers would trade him. I think you could get a 3rd line winger and a 2nd round pick for Grossmann. But I would still rather have Grossmann, but the idea of getting that 3rd line winger plus a better pick is tempting.

They're better players. both have won cups and were big pieces of those runs. ference led the bruins in TOI in playoff games last year. Different style? They both bring better puck moving ability and offense. Id take them in my own end of the ice any day. they are still making less on the cap. grossman's concussion history makes the age comparison a moot point.

all im saying is lets not pretend there aren't Dmen of Grossmans caliber readily available in UFA at his current rate or less
- Just5

This isn't even remotely accurate.

I would rather not trade Grossmann either, I hope you can pick that from my other posts. I think he is just as important of a role as Schenn on this team. However, it's likely it is either going to be Grossmann or Meszaros that gets traded. If its Meszaros I would expect... what about a 3rd round pick. For Grossmann I think you could get more, which would be the reason the Flyers would trade him. I think you could get a 3rd line winger and a 2nd round pick for Grossmann. But I would still rather have Grossmann, but the idea of getting that 3rd line winger plus a better pick is tempting.
- youarewrong

The Flyers traded for Grossmann, what did they give up for him? It's not tempting at all to me. It's a bad deal. You want a 3rd line Winger, sign Gagne. Keep Grossmann.

Timonen is certainly willing to block shots. So is Coburn. But I agree with the overall premise.
- MJL

Yes, Timonen and Coburn are willing to block shots, but they are more likely to try and stick check first, and they aren't the best at it either. Some people are just better at blocking shots, not sure why.

One of the reasons I like Grossmann so much is because after we lost Pronger, we didn't have the front of the net presence that could block shots and move players. Grossmann did that and instantly made the defense better. Now we have Schenn with Grossmann. I think the best possible combo for our defense is...

Timonen-Schenn... puck mover offensive and defensive responcible with big hitter and shot blocker.

Streit-Coburn... Offensive puck mover prone to defensive mistakes with Coburn who is better when asked to play a defensive role.

Grossmann-Gustefsson... Big time shot blocker defensive d-man that can hit with an offensive guy that needs someone that can cover his mistakes.

The Flyers traded for Grossmann, what did they give up for him? It's not tempting at all to me. It's a bad deal. You want a 3rd line Winger, sign Gagne. Keep Grossmann.
- MJL

I think they gave up a 2nd and 3rd right?

Believe me I would like to sign Gagne. I would like to trade Meszaros, and sign Gagne. I would be so much happier with that team. Though I'm still happy with what we got.

Yes, Timonen and Coburn are willing to block shots, but they are more likely to try and stick check first, and they aren't the best at it either. Some people are just better at blocking shots, not sure why.


- youarewrong

Neither Coburn nor Timonen are players who rely on stick checking. That's innacurate. Grossmann is a better shot blocker though.

I don't think it would wash him out or hurt him. But I want the player moving forward in his developmental curve. And I think the NHL is the best place for that. Brayden Schenn's trade value hasn't changed. Should they really base what they do with Laughton on how it would affect his trade value? Why do they want to trade him?
- MJL

It wouldn't be just his trade vale as I pointed out but Laughton is an asset. As an organization, you should always be about maximizing your assets. Does adding Laughton to the team this year get the Flyers closer to winning a Stanley Cup? No. Does a further year of development and a showcase at the world juniors increase his value so the organization could possibly move a position of strength, center, to fill a position of weakness, NHL ready defensemen, help the team win a cup in the near term? Yes IMO. The Flyers currently have a logjam at defense, but it is a logjam made up of average to mediocre defensemen.

Agreed, if they have to move a dman, I'd much rather move Mez. Even if they have to eat 25% of the salary and cap hit, they would still be dropping 3 million off their cap number this year which should be sufficient for their needs. Plus he would be a lot easier to move if the other team was only taking on a cap hit of 3 million and a salary of 4.125 million.
- BiggE

I would not keep any salary on Mez. If the Flyers are not bringing in Gagne, they can get under the cap with several moves that will not expose any players to waivers and get Pronger's contract on LTIR.

As that is the case, why trade a superior Defenseman like Mez or Grossmann? I'd rather keep them both let Gus become the 7th guy and see what team's defense gets decimated and desperate later and pick up some draft picks for Mez then once he shows he's healthy.

It wouldn't be just his trade vale as I pointed out but Laughton is an asset. As an organization, you should always be about maximizing your assets. Does adding Laughton to the team this year get the Flyers closer to winning a Stanley Cup? No. Does a further year of development and a showcase at the world juniors increase his value so the organization could possibly move a position of strength, center, to fill a position of weakness, NHL ready defensemen, help the team win a cup in the near term? Yes IMO. The Flyers currently have a logjam at defense, but it is a logjam made up of average to mediocre defensemen.
- psuhockey

Adding Laughton to the team this year could very well get the Flyers closer to a Cup in the future. No doubt about it. And as I said previously, the factors that weigh in to keeping Laughton are what's best for the player, and the team. The issues with his EL deal kicking in, or how it could increase or decrease his trade value, has zero bearing on making a decision on what to do with Laughton in my opinion. And the Flyers defenseman are not average to mediocre. Nor is there such a thing as a log jam at defense, as last Season clearly showed.

I would not keep any salary on Mez. If the Flyers are not bringing in Gagne, they can get under the cap with several moves that will not expose any players to waivers and get Pronger's contract on LTIR.

As that is the case, why trade a superior Defenseman like Mez or Grossmann? I'd rather keep them both let Gus become the 7th guy and see what team's defense gets decimated and desperate later and pick up some draft picks for Mez then once he shows he's healthy.
- flyler

Add to this it is more than likely our own defense gets decimated. Then we will be happy to have them.

I would not keep any salary on Mez. If the Flyers are not bringing in Gagne, they can get under the cap with several moves that will not expose any players to waivers and get Pronger's contract on LTIR.

As that is the case, why trade a superior Defenseman like Mez or Grossmann? I'd rather keep them both let Gus become the 7th guy and see what team's defense gets decimated and desperate later and pick up some draft picks for Mez then once he shows he's healthy.
- flyler

The thing is I want to use Pronger LTIR. I would rather the team have cap space to back to get a significant piece at the trade deadline if we need it. Maybe a bigtime scoring winger.

Adding Laughton to the team this year could very well get the Flyers closer to a Cup in the future. No doubt about it. And as I said previously, the factors that weigh in to keeping Laughton are what's best for the player, and the team. The issues with his EL deal kicking in, or how it could increase or decrease his trade value, has zero bearing on making a decision on what to do with Laughton in my opinion. And the Flyers defenseman are not average to mediocre. Nor is there such a thing as a log jam at defense, as last Season clearly showed.
- MJL

I really can't agree here. It would be one thing if these guys were making 1-2 mill. But right now, if there are no moves, your bottom pairing defense is set to make almost 8 million between them. That is way too much for a bottom pairing defense.

I really can't agree here. It would be one thing if these guys were making 1-2 mill. But right now, if there are no moves, your bottom pairing defense is set to make almost 8 million between them. That is way too much for a bottom pairing defense.
- youarewrong

How can you not agree there, with the situation they had last Season? No such thing as a logjam at defense. I agree it's not ideal to have that much money wrapped up in a defense. But the Flyers lead defenseman is 38. Two players, Meszaros and Grossmann, have injury concerns. One of them goes down, or worse, tow of them do. We'll be glad they have that depth.

I can't believe potential Hart trophy finalist Jason Akeson got sent back to the Phantoms.
- KGBflyers10