It looks to me like that section is saying, if he got the slide in the first season under the rules outlines in (i), he may slide a second time if he (again) plays less than 10 NHL games in the second season. I don't see any language suggesting you can only have that less than ten games once. Is there another section of the CBA where I can find that?
- BulliesPhan87

^^This is how I always understood it to be.

In my opinion, Gill looked like he's done. His mobility is very poor. Players skate by him down the Wing with ease. He's okay when he's engaged physically, as that is when he can use his size. But even then, he's not as overwhelming physically as he needs to be. And he completely blew the coverage on the Pouliot goal. He looks like a player who's time has come to hang them up. He was far from one of the better defenseman last night.
- MJL

However, if I was a team like Carolina... With a depleted defensive corp... I would take Gill in a heart beat as a 7th defenseman. An occasional call up, limited minutes, insurance in case of another injury, etc... I believe the 7th guy is better, if he's got NHL experience. I don't think Gill, is that different then Gervais Lilja, etc... Gill is probably smarter, but body not willing.

Morin looks like a deadringer to Pronger. I am not talkin actual talent (not yet anyway - but, I see potential)... just looks; the way he stakes, size, even face/hair (from a distance) reminds me of Pronger.

Although, I agree that it is generally wiser not to rush players into the NHL. I'm not so sure on rushing someone into the NHL is a bad thing for some individuals. After watching last nights game (based on only one game), Morin looks capable. If he did make the roster, I wouldn't be upset. He was clearly one of the best on the ice. The only way he gets better is through experience, what better experience than playing in the NHL. The downside is if he gets overwhelmed - with limited data - it doesn't appear that he would, especially if they managed him differently than the vets.
- leon neon

I want him to go back and put on more weight. Come back next season 15-20 lbs heavier. Learning to play defense in the NHL at a weight you will not be playing in after a few seasons can cause set-backs. Suddenly you find you can back skate quite as quick, your acceleration and timing get thrown off, and for a defenseman that is critical. I would rather get him into the shape his career weight will be at and then let me start to get adjusted to NHL.

If he was a forward with this kind of progress, I would say sure give him the 9 games.

Morin looked good again. Just hate heaping the expectations on him. Give him 2 more years in the Q and he should be up to 225 and ready to go. His potential as a top pairing is exciting.

I would like to see a fourth line out of the gate of

Raffl-Laughton-Rinaldo. Give them 10-12 mins a night. They would be fun to watch.
- Just5

I think the kid is going to wind up closer to 6'8' 245ish

I want him to go back and put on more weight. Come back next season 15-20 lbs heavier. Learning to play defense in the NHL at a weight you will not be playing in after a few seasons can cause set-backs. Suddenly you find you can back skate quite as quick, your acceleration and timing get thrown off, and for a defenseman that is critical. I would rather get him into the shape his career weight will be at and then let me start to get adjusted to NHL.

If he was a forward with this kind of progress, I would say sure give him the 9 games.
- youarewrong

You want him on the Byfuglien diet?

However, if I was a team like Carolina... With a depleted defensive corp... I would take Gill in a heart beat as a 7th defenseman. An occasional call up, limited minutes, insurance in case of another injury, etc... I believe the 7th guy is better, if he's got NHL experience. I don't think Gill, is that different then Gervais Lilja, etc... Gill is probably smarter, but body not willing.
- leon neon

There are much better options for Carolina then Hal Gill IMO. Really they need an upgrade on defense like Meszaros.... crosses fingers.

You want him on the Byfuglien diet?
- PhillySportsGuy

I'd be okay with the Barry Bonds, Mark McGuirre, Sammy Sosa diet, minus the illegal drugs.... if thats possible.

I'd be okay with the Barry Bonds, Mark McGuirre, Sammy Sosa diet, minus the illegal drugs.... if thats possible.
- youarewrong

I don't think that's possible. Those guys couldn't even wipe their own asses they were so big. We still want Morin to be able to skate.

Is Giroux going to get into any preseason games?

Is Giroux going to get into any preseason games?
- PhillySportsGuy

It sounds like he's on track to return on opening night, so I'd expect no preseason for Clode.

It sounds like he's on track to return on opening night, so I'd expect no preseason for Clode.
- BulliesPhan87

Think that would contribute to a slow start for 28?

Think that would contribute to a slow start for 28?
- MJL

Yes. You can work as much time off the ice you want. You can even skate in practice. But without games your timing with your linemates is going to be off at least a bit. But I'm not expecting him to be ice cold though, just not as hot as he should be.

Is Giroux going to get into any preseason games?
- PhillySportsGuy

Maybe the last one.

I hope Rinaldo is back for that game, too.

Yes. You can work as much time off the ice you want. You can even skate in practice. But without games your timing with your linemates is going to be off at least a bit. But I'm not expecting him to be ice cold though, just not as hot as he should be.
- youarewrong

I would agree. It's going to take some game action to one, get in true game shape. And secondly to get his timing down.

As I re-read the section you posted, I would seem to agree with you. But then it's puzzling why Holmgren would say that. Unless he's purposely misleading the STH for some reason.
- MJL

What's so puzzling? It would fit right in with the pattern of him not knowing exactly what he's talking about when it comes to the finer points of the CBA.

I still like Homer in a talent evaluation sense, and a team building sense, and a deal-making sense, but as the cap and CBA become more and more complex, it's going to be incumbent on the Flyers' legal team to at least get the rules straight and keep Homer abreast of the mechanics.

From a fan perspective, it's pretty scary that they continue to make decisions (and make embarrassing mistakes) based on fundamental misunderstandings of the rules... so far, it hasn't killed them... but one day it will.

What's so puzzling? It would fit right in with the pattern of him not knowing exactly what he's talking about when it comes to the finer points of the CBA.

I still like Homer in a talent evaluation sense, and a team building sense, and a deal-making sense, but as the cap and CBA become more and more complex, it's going to be incumbent on the Flyers' legal team to at least get the rules straight and keep Homer abreast of the mechanics.

From a fan perspective, it's pretty scary that they continue to make decisions (and make embarrassing mistakes) based on fundamental misunderstandings of the rules... so far, it hasn't killed them... but one day it will.
- Tomahawk

The buck ultimately stops with Homer on these things, but I'm pretty sure that sort of CBA minutiae is the entire reason that Barry Hanrahan enjoys employment with the Philadelphia Flyers.

What's so puzzling? It would fit right in with the pattern of him not knowing exactly what he's talking about when it comes to the finer points of the CBA.

I still like Homer in a talent evaluation sense, and a team building sense, and a deal-making sense, but as the cap and CBA become more and more complex, it's going to be incumbent on the Flyers' legal team to at least get the rules straight and keep Homer abreast of the mechanics.

From a fan perspective, it's pretty scary that they continue to make decisions (and make embarrassing mistakes) based on fundamental misunderstandings of the rules... so far, it hasn't killed them... but one day it will.
- Tomahawk

I would disagree that there is a pattern. Over the hundreds of discussions that happen on the Cap, since the Cap was instituted in 2005, he has been incorrect a handful of times. And far to much has been made of it when he has, because it really hasn't affected anything. I don't think it's scary at all, and it's much ado about nothing. Way overblown.

The buck ultimately stops with Homer on these things, but I'm pretty sure that sort of CBA minutiae is the entire reason that Barry Hanrahan enjoys employment with the Philadelphia Flyers.
- johndewar

I understand that the Flyers are pioneers, usually pushing the envelope and expanding into legal gray areas, but what's so difficult about shooting off an email to Bill Daly before they make a decision like drafting Mathers on the assumption that Hyka would still be available to them as a UFA, or caution Homer to take a step back when he's asked about CBA particulars by the press/fans?

It's kind of pathetic that fans/bloggers can crowd source the correct answers to these questions and the Flyers usually don't realize they've erred until it's mentioned in places like this.

Last night the commentators said Lundqvist lost 2.5 inches off each pad.
- Feanor

Exactly, which thinking about how fast that puck moves and how fast the goalie can react, 2.5 inch off each pad is a substantial difference. Now we just have to get the flyers to just shoot more!

I understand that the Flyers are pioneers, usually pushing the envelope and expanding into legal gray areas, but what's so difficult about shooting off an email to Bill Daly before they make the decision to draft Mathers on the assumption that Hyka would be available to them as a UFA, or caution Homer to take a step back when he's asked about CBA particulars by the press/fans?

It's kind of pathetic that fans/bloggers can crowd source the correct answers to these questions and the Flyers usually don't realize they've erred until it's mentioned in places like this.
- Tomahawk

Unless you've been in that spot, I'm not sure any of us are aware of the types of time frames they operate under in order to get deals done.

Furthermore, there is also the idea that some rules are interpreted differently than others. That's why lawyers exist (apropos of nothing, Barry Hanrahan recently completed a law degree at Widener Law. Take from that what you will).

You're right; they should know these things, but let's keep it in perspective.

NHL front offices don't operate in a vacuum, with respect to operation of a hockey team, and comparing their knowledge to a crowd sourced compendium of online sources is disingenuous, at best.

What's so puzzling? It would fit right in with the pattern of him not knowing exactly what he's talking about when it comes to the finer points of the CBA.

I still like Homer in a talent evaluation sense, and a team building sense, and a deal-making sense, but as the cap and CBA become more and more complex, it's going to be incumbent on the Flyers' legal team to at least get the rules straight and keep Homer abreast of the mechanics.

From a fan perspective, it's pretty scary that they continue to make decisions (and make embarrassing mistakes) based on fundamental misunderstandings of the rules... so far, it hasn't killed them... but one day it will.
- Tomahawk

Don't want to start a fight, but what pattern is that? He gets killed on the Pronger over-35, but otherwise, what mistakes has he made?

Don't want to start a fight, but what pattern is that? He gets killed on the Pronger over-35, but otherwise, what mistakes has he made?
- jmatchett383

Talbot's initial contract structure rejected... apparently an arithmetic fail, or a failure to understand the updated structuring rules.

Homer thought Bartulis had another year of waiver exemption back in 2010 (maybe 2011?) when he actually didn't... if Bill (and fans) hadn't caught it, that might have been a nasty surprise.

Hyka, as I mentioned above. They drafted Mathers in the 7th-round assuming Hyka could be acquired via PTO -> UFA. BSH was the first to uncover that they actually couldn't, I believe. If they had known, they would have taken Hyka and then signed Mathers as a UFA and gotten both -- as it turns out, LA drafted Hyka in the next draft.

Pronger's mistaken 35+ contract.

Now, Laughton.

I would disagree that there is a pattern. Over the hundreds of discussions that happen on the Cap, since the Cap was instituted in 2005, he has been incorrect a handful of times. And far to much has been made of it when he has, because it really hasn't affected anything. I don't think it's scary at all, and it's much ado about nothing. Way overblown.
- MJL

But I am pretty sure it has never happen to any other GM or franchise besides Homer. Ever.

Talbot's initial contract structure rejected... apparently an arithmetic fail, or a failure to understand the updated structuring rules.

Homer thought Bartulis had another year of waiver exemption back in 2010 (maybe 2011?) when he actually didn't... if Bill (and fans) hadn't caught it, that might have been a nasty surprise.

Hyka, as I mentioned above. They drafted Mathers in the 7th-round assuming Hyka could be acquired via PTO -> UFA. BSH was the first to uncover that they actually couldn't, I believe. If they had known, they would have taken Hyka and then signed Mathers as a UFA and gotten both -- as it turns out, LA drafted Hyka in the next draft.

Pronger's mistaken 35+ contract.

Now, Laughton.
- Tomahawk

Much ado about nothing. None of it hurt them, and they've dealt with hundreds of player moves and contracts since 2005. It's nitpicking over things that really don't matter much.

But I am pretty sure it has never happen to any other GM or franchise besides Homer. Ever.
- MBFlyerfan

Can you imagine is some other franchise had done it? I mean, imagine if a GM out there messed up something so simple and forgetting to tender offers to their RFAs. What a joke a franchise like that would be.