That is a coach's decision, it doesn't mean hes a top pairing defenseman. Everybody can clearly see he is a filler, not an answer. Aulie was capable too, right? It's not exactly like Carlyle is playing good defenseman with Phaneuf, who else has gotten a shot? Kotska and Holzer? I would hope Gunnarsson looks good compared to those two. You only think Gunnarsson is capable and nobody else is because Gunnarsson is given a shot there while no one else is.
- ThePresident

except that EVERYONE is given a shot there, and has been, and he keeps going back to Gunnar, cause he's the only one capable of actually handling the players.

Check the stats. The last 2 seasons, every dman in the organization who's played an NHL game has taken a shift with Dion (except Fraser), and the only one who can handle it is Gunnarson. That's why Carlyle keeps going back to him.

Franson's been given a shot, and failed. He's also been given matchups again 1st and 2nd line competition (briefly) and failed.

That's why he was bottom pairing this season. Carlyle doesn't trust him higher in the rotation.

I don't believe Franson is a top pairing, however he is a top 4, which Gunnarsson is capable of playing, but is realistically a #5 based on his talent.
- ThePresident

not on this team last season he wasn't.

I don't believe Franson is a top pairing, however he is a top 4, which Gunnarsson is capable of playing, but is realistically a #5 based on his talent.
- ThePresident

It's funny that a former Norris trophy winner who is now one the best defensive coaches in hockey over the last decade or so disagrees with you so emphatically (as evidenced by how the 2 players where used last season).

I don't believe Franson is a top pairing, however he is a top 4, which Gunnarsson is capable of playing, but is realistically a #5 based on his talent.
- ThePresident

I'm on record several times in saying an ideal 2nd pairing for the Leafs would in fact be:

Gunnar-Franson

not on this team last season he wasn't.
- Big_Lightnin

His potential, he will continue to improve. That is the difference between Gunnarsson and Franson. Players that have reached their potential: Phaneuf, Gunnarsson, Fraser, Liles. Players that have potential to move up in the depth chart: Gardiner, Rielly, Franson, Ranger, Brennan. Do you understand what I am saying?

I GOT GOOSEBUMPS KNOWING THERES A LEAF GAME TONIGHT!!!!!!!

Brutal lineup, why'd I spend money on this poop.

His potential, he will continue to improve. That is the difference between Gunnarsson and Franson. Players that have reached their potential: Phaneuf, Gunnarsson, Fraser, Liles. Players that have potential to move up in the depth chart: Gardiner, Rielly, Franson, Ranger, Brennan. Do you understand what I am saying?
- ThePresident

so.. Franson, who's 26 yrs old and played 245 NHL games is still developing, but Gunnarson, who is 26 yrs old and played 224 games is all done developing?

gotcha.

Gunnarson is still MILES better defensively than Franson.

It's funny that a former Norris trophy winner who is now one the best defensive coaches in hockey over the last decade or so disagrees with you so emphatically (as evidenced by how the 2 players where used last season).
- Big_Lightnin

So tell me...why was he not that impressed by Gunnarsson that he chose to play Holzer and Kotska with Phaneuf? If that doesn't say Gunnarsson shouldn't be there, I don't know what does.

so.. Franson, who's 26 yrs old and played 245 NHL games is still developing, but Gunnarson, who is 26 yrs old and played 224 games is all done developing?

gotcha.

Gunnarson is still MILES better defensively than Franson.
- Big_Lightnin

Yes, because Franson has more talent, and a higher ceiling. If you want to put it in lamens terms....if this were NHL14, Gunnarsson would be 3 stars and Franson would be 4 stars, just an example.

Brutal lineup, why'd I spend money on this poop.
- Leafland

If only I had a nickel for every time that's been said by a Leafs fan, I'd be dead

So tell me...why was he not that impressed by Gunnarsson that he chose to play Holzer and Kotska with Phaneuf? If that doesn't say Gunnarsson shouldn't be there, I don't know what does.
- ThePresident

Gunnarsson was playing hurt most of last year, it's been pretty well document to this fact. He's a good stay at home guy to play with Phaneuf. He doesn't make many mistakes and is good at controlling opposing players. Till franson improves his skating I wouldn't consider him better then Gunnar.

So tell me...why was he not that impressed by Gunnarsson that he chose to play Holzer and Kotska with Phaneuf? If that doesn't say Gunnarsson shouldn't be there, I don't know what does.
- ThePresident

They played in the AHL and were game ready.

They played in the AHL and were game ready.
- XxHarounXx

All I see are excuses.

All I see are excuses.
- ThePresident

This isn't worth my time

This isn't worth my time
- XxHarounXx

That's how I felt.

That's how I felt.
- UsernameUnknown

Because you know I'm right. Shoot, because Kotska and Holzer were game ready, they should have been our top pairing.

If only I had a nickel for every time that's been said by a Leafs fan, I'd be dead
- Zezel

Suffocated by nickels? Lead poisoning?

Because you know I'm right. Shoot, because Kotska and Holder were game ready, they should have been our top pairing.
- ThePresident

You conviently left out Gunnar being injured. If franson is so good why wasn't he playing top 4 pairings.

You conviently left out Gunnar being injured. If franson is so good why wasn't he playing top 4 pairings.
- Yeti1181

Gunner is better defensively franson is better offensively

case closed

Because you know I'm right. Shoot, because Kotska and Holzer were game ready, they should have been our top pairing.
- ThePresident

No. Because its stupid to argue with someone who is ignorant to the other side. You just keep spewing out random poop without even listening to what's being said aside from yourself

Gunner is better defensively franson is better offensively

case closed
- xXwagzXx

Your logic interferes with my pointless arguing to kill time dammit

You conviently left out Gunnar being injured. If franson is so good why wasn't he playing top 4 pairings.
- Yeti1181

Excuse. Because that is where the coach decided to play him. Just as the coach decided not to play Gardiner, even though he is better. Just as Carlyle said Lupul wasn't a LW or a top 6 forward when he was on the Ducks. Bozak is playing 1st line center, does that mean he is better than Kadri? Do you expect Kadri to surpass Bozak soon? Yeah, well the same goes for Franson and Gardiner, they will continue to get better. Gunnarsson is the Bozak version on defense.

You conviently left out Gunnar being injured. If franson is so good why wasn't he playing top 4 pairings.
- Yeti1181

No. Because its stupid to argue with someone who is ignorant to the other side. You just keep spewing out random poop without even listening to what's being said aside from yourself
- UsernameUnknown

Listening to you, you probably thought Grabovski being signed to a 5 year deal at 25 million was a great idea.