Is this right:

Flyers waive Rosehill, Hall and Gervais they should be cap compliant by $46,478.

Day 1 they put Pronger on LTIR. So Pronger LTIR - $46,478 is what they have available over the season?
$4,941,429 - $46,478 = $4,894,951 + $64,300,000 = $69,194,951.

Pretty damn brilliant if you ask me, if that's right of course.

Then Bourdon and maybe MEz goes on LTIR and they aren't eating up $$$ towards that cap.

Is this correct?
- jstross

Yes, but it's really likely Hall would get claimed. They can waive Rosehill & Gervais and send Courturier or Brayden Schenn to the AHL, place Pronger and Bourdon on LTIR, then recall whichever ones, and get the full benefit of Pronger & Bourdon's LTIR exemptions.

I suggest Couturier or Schenn because they are exempt from waivers.

Also, Meszaros is cleared to play, so he can't go on LTIR

Mez will be ready to go by opening day, I think.
- JAKEw1234

That's even better. It just looks like it's good that they should be so close to the cap that they almost get the full value of Pronger's LTIR. They'll eat back into the Cap when they bring Hall and probably Rosehill/McGinn back. That eats 1.3-1.4. Not sure how Bourdon is counted on CapGeek, but 3+ million if it works out this way is plenty at the deadline to acquire. Of course I could have this totally wrong. The salary cap is

Is this right:

Flyers waive Rosehill, Hall and Gervais they should be cap compliant by $46,478.

Day 1 they put Pronger on LTIR. So Pronger LTIR - $46,478 is what they have available over the season?
$4,941,429 - $46,478 = $4,894,951 + $64,300,000 = $69,194,951.

Pretty damn brilliant if you ask me, if that's right of course.

Then Bourdon and maybe MEz goes on LTIR and they aren't eating up $$$ towards that cap.

Is this correct?
- jstross

I don't think the Flyers would risk losing 3 players to waivers, when they could just temporarily assign Schenn and Couturier to the AHL.
Players on LTIR still count against the Cap.

That's even better. It just looks like it's good that they should be so close to the cap that they almost get the full value of Pronger's LTIR. They'll eat back into the Cap when they bring Hall and probably Rosehill/McGinn back. That eats 1.3-1.4. Not sure how Bourdon is counted on CapGeek, but 3+ million if it works out this way is plenty at the deadline to acquire. Of course I could have this totally wrong. The salary cap is
- jstross

Keep in mind that the potential 3M of Cap space will be LTIR Cap space. Which is quite different then having 3M of Cap space under the upper limit.

I don't think the Flyers would risk losing 3 players to waivers, when they could just temporarily assign Schenn and Couturier to the AHL.
Players on LTIR still count against the Cap.
- MJL

Got it, but does the cap number I put out there after Pronger is put on LTIR make sense? They will want to be as close to the cap as possible to maximize Pronger's LTIR space.

Keep in mind that the potential 3M of Cap space will be LTIR Cap space. Which is quite different then having 3M of Cap space under the upper limit.
- MJL

Why is it different. If you are at the cap and LTIR a player for 5 Million you can spend an extra 5 million since we know Pronger isn't coming back.

Got it, but does the cap number I put out there after Pronger is put on LTIR make sense? They will want to be as close to the cap as possible to maximize Pronger's LTIR space.
- jstross

No, honestly, it doesn't make sense. I don't really have any idea where you got those numbers from. There's no such thing as LTIR until you have maxed out your Cap space.

Why is it different. If you are at the cap and LTIR a player for 5 Million you can spend an extra 5 million since we know Pronger isn't coming back.
- jstross

Cap space under the Upper Limit can be banked. LTIR Cap space cannot be banked. It is use it or lose it.

No, honestly, it doesn't make sense. I don't really have any idea where you got those numbers from. There's no such thing as LTIR until you have maxed out your Cap space.
- MJL

Teams are eligible to receive cap relief when a player is considered to have a "bona-fide long-term injury" — injuries that cause a player to miss at least 10 games or 24 days. In such cases, the team can place the player on long-term injured reserve (LTIR).
The placement of a player on LTIR does not remove the player's cap hit from the team's cap payroll — the cap hit continues to count. Nor does the placement of a player on LTIR provide the team with any additional cap-space savings that can be banked for future use while the team operates below the upper limit.
Placing a player on LTIR only provides relief if the team's cap payroll or "Averaged Club Salary" begins to exceed the upper limit. The amount of LTI relief is limited to the amount the team has gone over the cap — less the amount of cap space the team had at the time the LTIR transaction took place — and not the entire amount of the injured player's salary.
Further to the previous paragraph, eligible long-term injury space is calculated on the day the player is placed on LTIR. If the salary cap is $70.0 million and the team has a $69.0 million cap payroll the day Player A with a $4.0 million cap hit is placed on LTIR, the team's cap payroll or "Averaged Club Salary" can only exceed the cap by $3.0 million at any point thereafter.

Teams are eligible to receive cap relief when a player is considered to have a "bona-fide long-term injury" — injuries that cause a player to miss at least 10 games or 24 days. In such cases, the team can place the player on long-term injured reserve (LTIR).
The placement of a player on LTIR does not remove the player's cap hit from the team's cap payroll — the cap hit continues to count. Nor does the placement of a player on LTIR provide the team with any additional cap-space savings that can be banked for future use while the team operates below the upper limit.
Placing a player on LTIR only provides relief if the team's cap payroll or "Averaged Club Salary" begins to exceed the upper limit. The amount of LTI relief is limited to the amount the team has gone over the cap — less the amount of cap space the team had at the time the LTIR transaction took place — and not the entire amount of the injured player's salary.
Further to the previous paragraph, eligible long-term injury space is calculated on the day the player is placed on LTIR. If the salary cap is $70.0 million and the team has a $69.0 million cap payroll the day Player A with a $4.0 million cap hit is placed on LTIR, the team's cap payroll or "Averaged Club Salary" can only exceed the cap by $3.0 million at any point thereafter.
- jstross

Dude, I can recited the FAQ from capgeek by heart. I'll explain what I meant. If a team is 5M under the Cap, and a player with a 4M Cap hit get's injured. If the team places the player on the LTI list, the team get's zero relief. LTIR doesn't kick in until you spend all of your Cap space under the Upper Limit.

Dude, I can recited the FAQ from capgeek by heart. I'll explain what I meant. If a team is 5M under the Cap, and a player with a 4M Cap hit get's injured. If the team places the player on the LTI list, the team get's zero relief. LTIR doesn't kick in until you spend all of your Cap space under the Upper Limit.
- MJL

I realize that, but in the sceanrio I laid out the Flyers were less than 50K under the cap so they would get almost all of Pronger's $4.9 million in relief. No?

I realize that, but in the sceanrio I laid out the Flyers were less than 50K under the cap so they would get almost all of Pronger's $4.9 million in relief. No?
- jstross

I'm not debating if they would do it or not, just if the numbers were correct. So the question stands:

Is this right:

Flyers waive Rosehill, Hall and Gervais they should be cap compliant by $46,478.

Day 1 they put Pronger on LTIR. So Pronger LTIR - $46,478 is what they have available over the season?
$4,941,429 - $46,478 = $4,894,951 + $64,300,000 = $69,194,951.

I realize that, but in the sceanrio I laid out the Flyers were less than 50K under the cap so they would get almost all of Pronger's $4.9 million in relief. No?
- jstross

The closer you are to the Upper Limit the better. And the timing of when you do it is also important. The Flyers don't want to use LTIR to become Cap compliant at the end of training Camp. They need to wait until Oct 1 to max out the LTIR space.

I'm not debating if they would do it or not, just if the numbers were correct. So the question stands:

Is this right:

Flyers waive Rosehill, Hall and Gervais they should be cap compliant by $46,478.

Day 1 they put Pronger on LTIR. So Pronger LTIR - $46,478 is what they have available over the season?
$4,941,429 - $46,478 = $4,894,951 + $64,300,000 = $69,194,951.
- jstross

Hypothetically speaking, yes. But like I said before, why would they risk losing 3 players to waivers?

Hypothetically speaking, yes. But like I said before, why would they risk losing 3 players to waivers?
- MJL

Ok, the example was just to understand the situation. It's a lower chance of happening with no Cleary or Gagne to bring on board in case players get plucked. I see no issue with waiving Gervais and Rosehill. I didn't like the signing of Rosehill in the off season in the first place. If they can get close to the 64.3 without possibly losing players I'm all for it.

Ok, the example was just to understand the situation. It's a lower chance of happening with no Cleary or Gagne to bring on board in case players get plucked. I see no issue with waiving Gervais and Rosehill. I didn't like the signing of Rosehill in the off season in the first place. If they can get close to the 64.3 without possibly losing players I'm all for it.
- jstross

Well although I don't agree about the signing of Rosehill, you actually bring up a very good point. The closer they stay to the Upper Limit when playing the shell game they're going to play, the better. I have to crunch the numbers to look for the best scenario. But this is where it gets complicated with the LTIR calculations. Best thing to do is to wait until Capgeek updates the rosters and see where they stand.

Well although I don't agree about the signing of Rosehill, you actually bring up a very good point. The closer they stay to the Upper Limit when playing the shell game they're going to play, the better. I have to crunch the numbers to look for the best scenario.
- MJL

Sounds cool. I was hoping you were on to see just what they could pull off. Look forward to seeing what u come up with.

Sounds cool. I was hoping you were on to see just what they could pull off. Look forward to seeing what u come up with.
- jstross

I added to the post above. So far, waiving the 3 players you mentioned, puts them the closest to the Upper Limit as far as I can tell. Will they risk that, we'll see. But good discussion.

I added to the post above. So far, waiving the 3 players you mentioned, puts them the closest to the Upper Limit as far as I can tell. Will they risk that, we'll see. But good discussion.
- MJL

Under $50K is tight. It will be interesting. I agree, good discussion.

Wine Festival at Heritage station Farm so I need to go!