what is relevant tho is franson is a third pairing d-man with some 2nd PP time.

look across the league.. guys like this dont make 3.5million.. more like 2
- Dozzer

He's not a 3rd pairing D...he's a top 4.
Theres your issue.

exactly... carlyle wouldnt give him the ice time til he started doing as he was told

keep arguing tho.. i said kadri would sign for less than 3 and everyone ripped me a new one

same with franson.. 2.5 tops
- Dozzer

Carlyle didn't give him the ice time because he knew nothing about Franson except that Wilson didn't use him.

And what's this keep arguing part? I was never part of the everyone. I also came on here daily telling people not to read the tsn bullpoop.

As for Franson, I think he'll get 3.4M (4) deal.

ok.. i think the leafs end up signing raymond

perfect fit for the third line wing
- Dozzer

So, no Colbourne? (Spelling?)

Yeah, and let me ask you this, outside of getting secondary assists on that Oiler team, does Bergeron have any of the other elements to his game that Franson has, ie. I'm staring at the hits and Blocked shots columns....and that's the other thing, Kostka was getting the PP time at the beginning of the season over Franson. Our first PP unit was poop, while the second PP unit with Franson on it was contributing.
- mykokes

The slap shot from hell?

Good coaching? He had to spend half the season convincing the coach he deserved PP time, and fortunately Carlyle gave it to him. Like come on Bruce, you're really reaching here.
- mykokes

Its more like "swing and a miss!"

Carlyle didn't give him the ice time because he knew nothing about Franson except that Wilson didn't use him.

And what's this keep arguing part? I was never part of the everyone. I also came on here daily telling people not to read the tsn bullpoop.

As for Franson, I think he'll get 3.4M (4) deal.
- mykokes

That would be a major over-payment...I sure hope Nonis doesn't do that..

insulting other posters is actually not a new rule

sayign a guy doesnt watch hockey is an insult.. i wont put up with it any longer.
- Dozzer

If someone said I lived and breathed hockey - absorbed it...much like Neo sees the Matrix...I'd take that as a compliment.

In all seriousness though, Franson may have played bottom pairing mnutes with Fraser, but he is clearly not a 5/6 dman. Spreading out some of the guys with offensive capabilities and then re-allocating minutes based on special teams requirements is clearly Carlyle's philosophy and makes it hard to pigeon hole a player into traditional pairing assignments.

Kadri and Franson will have contracts by Friday
- Byfuglien Ate Me

This...... I knew Kadri would sign, Franson soon for one year at around 2.2

So how do we work Ma$e Raymond into the cap?

Would like to see Chad Larose on a PTO as well....

That's awesome for him. And it shows that Carlyle knows how to maximize what he gets out of his players- just like putting Kadri in the sheltered offensive role over Grabo.

But it doesn't change the fact that he was playing on the bottom pairing.
- Feeling Glucky?

For the first half sure, the second half and playoffs that changed.

He's not a 3rd pairing D...he's a top 4.
Theres your issue.
- Fakepartofme

that and the bottom pairing argument seems to be centered around estoi.
points mean nothing, they are secondary assist, he had no game winners, he had 2nd most pptoi/g by sheer luck.
the first 10-15 games he played 12-14mins per game after that 18-22... as the bottom pairing d-man.

It would be that if they were trying to get him to take a pay-cut. It's more, "suck it up, and take this million dollar raise"
- Feeling Glucky?

you're not putting it in proper context though and that's the problem. it's about value and worth. doesn't matter if we're talking hundreds or millions because numbers are always relative to the situation. if he is worth $3.5 million (hypothetical), playing for $2.5 million is a 30% haircut on his worth. it's a lot. especially for a guy who isn't going to make $50 million over his career, and especially when the same team had no problem handing out fistfuls of cash to a lot of other players this summer.

He's not a 3rd pairing D...he's a top 4.
Theres your issue.
- Fakepartofme

not last year he wasnt

and no.. i dont think the 4 games he played in the top four in the playoffs count for more than the entire season

that and the bottom pairing argument seems to be centered around estoi.
- Rockhead_37

And playing with Fraser. On the 3rd pairing. All. Season. Long.

edit: and seeing as the normal d pairings we're talking about are at even strength... it makes sense to use ESTOI... and even if we're talking overall TOI, he was still 5th.

exactly... carlyle wouldnt give him the ice time til he started doing as he was told

keep arguing tho.. i said kadri would sign for less than 3 and everyone ripped me a new one

same with franson.. 2.5 tops
- Dozzer

Actually a couple people including myself, said he would get less than 3. However, we are only partially right. The second year he is make 3.1.
As for Franson, on a one term deal....he'll get 2.5 - 2.75...anything longer will be over 3.
Reasonable cash.

exactly... carlyle wouldnt give him the ice time til he started doing as he was told

keep arguing tho.. i said kadri would sign for less than 3 and everyone ripped me a new one

same with franson.. 2.5 tops
- Dozzer

i recall just about everyone saying he'd end up signing for around $3 million on a bridge deal. Franson has always been the more polarizing player.

If someone said I lived and breathed hockey - absorbed it...much like Neo sees the Matrix...I'd take that as a compliment.

In all seriousness though, Franson may have played bottom pairing mnutes with Fraser, but he is clearly not a 5/6 dman. Spreading out some of the guys with offensive capabilities and then re-allocating minutes based on special teams requirements is clearly Carlyle's philosophy and makes it hard to pigeon hole a player into traditional pairing assignments.
- Deeps27

oh i am done with this

he'll get 2.5 million tops

you guys feel differently.. fine.

i just dont get as enamored with point production as some of you guys do i guess.

So we currently have $2MM in cap space now.

What do we get for demoting Holzer?

i recall just about everyone saying he'd end up signing for around $3 million on a bridge deal. Franson has always been the more polarizing player.
- scotch_tape

oh man you have no idea.. there were people saying 3.5-4 for kadri

you're not putting it in proper context though and that's the problem. it's about value and worth. doesn't matter if we're talking hundreds or millions because numbers are always relative to the situation. if he is worth $3.5 million (hypothetical), playing for $2.5 million is a 30% haircut on his worth. it's a lot. especially for a guy who isn't going to make $50 million over his career, and especially when the same team had no problem handing out fistfuls of cash to a lot of other players this summer.
- scotch_tape

Players who are more proven than he is.

oh i am done with this

he'll get 2.5 million tops

you guys feel differently.. fine.

i just dont get as enamored with point production as some of you guys do i guess.
- Dozzer

Not even just point production - I think he really tapped into his potential during the playoffs and showed the type of two-way force he can evolve into. I don't think that translates into a HR contract today, but there is a pretty good ceiling on this player, and he is still relatively young. Exciting asset to have, especially considering the circumstances underhichhe was acquired.

Not even just point production - I think he really tapped into his potential during the playoffs and showed the type of two-way force he can evolve into. I don't think that translates into a HR contract today, but there is a pretty good ceiling on this player, and he is still relatively young. Exciting asset to have, especially considering the circumstances underhichhe was acquired.
- Deeps27

oh he's nice to have.. but he isnt worth a poop ton of salary.. not yet anyways

And playing with Fraser. On the 3rd pairing. All. Season. Long.

edit: and seeing as the normal d pairings we're talking about are at even strength... it makes sense to use ESTOI... and even if we're talking overall TOI, he was still 5th.
- Feeling Glucky?

yes, behind a guy that played 12 games... and a guy who was replaced by gunnar and played 25+ for the first 20 games or so


edit... toi/g
if just toi overall, i thinks he is #2... but again, that means nothing because it is bloated with the pptoi, that he got by pure circumstance

Kadri signing is huge for the chemistry of this team regardless of the bad rep this kid got and as much as I like Franson people need to be realistic in his ability IMO hes a decent second pairing defenseman who can still improve, but not by much.

So because Franson played with Fraser all year long, that makes him a #5 d.....does that make Holzer and Kostka #2's because they played with Phaneuf?

Players who are more proven than he is.
- Feeling Glucky?

ok. but that wasn't the initial point. this was all under the assumption that Franson is worth 3.5 (obviously debatable).