Why do you hate Cleary?
- PhillySportsGuy

I think its his face.

you guys have done some aggressive moves this offseason, and a lot of people have given the flyers the gears about it, but I liked all the moves you did.

Mason/Emery are a solid tandem, very under rated.
Streit , even though a lot of money, got the best dman on the market, will help the PP
Lecavalier, solid signings, doesnt have to be the guy in Philly, gets to play with a more balanced top 6 compared t Tampa,
Cleary, you win with these guys in the playoffs, a do anythign and everything kind of guy.

You didnt plug holes with one year guys, all of them are long term, I think its a solid team.
- DDM-Coga

The Flyers had three ways to go.

1. They could continue to let the young guys develop and give them major ice time. This may have resulted in more growing pains and possibly a low seed. (Not the Flyer way of course)

2. They could trade some of the young talent for win now talent and go for the cup this season while sacrificing some of the future.

3. They could pay a lot for the top free agents and sacrifice future cap space, but retain all of their young talent. This would give the team a chance to be competitive this year without sacrificing the young talent.

Relevance? Im not seeing it.
Cooke is gone.
The Flyers go out of their way, in spite of trying to become a better team; to make themselves the most hate able organization in the history of professional sports.That cant win championships.
- nbartley9

I'm not getting the Cleary hate. Care to expand?

Relevance? Im not seeing it.
Cooke is gone.
The Flyers go out of their way, in spite of trying to become a better team; to make themselves the most hate able organization in the history of professional sports.That cant win championships.
- nbartley9

Not sure how they are a hate able team. The players they have are a mix of young kids, and lunch pale veterans. Guys like Timonen are respected league wide. A player like Emery coming back from a career threatening injury is an easy guy to root for.

Being unable to win a Cup for close to 4 decades is extremely frustrating, and disappointing, but it's not for lack of effort.

Not sure how they are a hate able team. The players they have are a mix of young kids, and lunch pale veterans. Guys like Timonen are respected league wide. A player like Emery coming back from a career threatening injury is an easy guy to root for.

Being unable to win a Cup for close to 4 decades is extremely frustrating, and disappointing, but it's not for lack of effort.
- PLindbergh31

It was just some night before hockey gamesmanship.
Im giddy with hockey joy, and figured the best way to appease that was to spew a little Flyers hate.
The thing I hate most about him is that he is considering wearing a Flyers jersey.

Relevance? Im not seeing it.
Cooke is gone.
The Flyers go out of their way, in spite of trying to become a better team; to make themselves the most hate able organization in the history of professional sports.That cant win championships.
- nbartley9

yes, absolutely ... the Flyers just want to be hated, and championships be damned.

Isn't one of Vinny's strengths defensive zone faceoffs?
- FlyerGuy

I'm ok with Vinny, but Schenn and Simmer were both pretty bad defensively last year.

I like the Cleary signing. Obviously, I'd prefer it being either 1 year less or slightly less of a cap hit, but ya gotta pay for guys like Cleary when you're in a bidding war.

I do have one question about it though. We were already in a tight cap situation before him. Now that we're in a tighter one after signing him (and the other 29 GMs are well aware of this), did Homer just make any possible trade return into pennies on the dollar? When we dealt Upshall and a 2nd for Carcillo to shave very little off the cap but enough to call up Claude, we obviously dealt the more talented (albeit more injury prone but less dumb) player and still had to include the 2nd rounder as incentive to get the deal done. I see any trade involving a player with value (Talbot, Coburn) returning from little compared to what I think they are worth due to this situation. I hope I'm wrong.

Edit: And I'm in no way advocating dealing Coburn, I simply threw his name in there since he's been the one in rumors all summer. If I had it my way, he'd be going nowhere.

Not to mention my thread has been dead since 930

I like the Cleary signing. Obviously, I'd prefer it being either 1 year less or slightly less of a cap hit, but ya gotta pay for guys like Cleary when you're in a bidding war.

I do have one question about it though. We were already in a tight cap situation before him. Now that we're in a tighter one after signing him (and the other 29 GMs are well aware of this), did Homer just make any possible trade return into pennies on the dollar? When we dealt Upshall and a 2nd for Carcillo to shave very little off the cap but enough to call up Claude, we obviously dealt the more talented (albeit more injury prone but less dumb) player and still had to include the 2nd rounder as incentive to get the deal done. I see any trade involving a player with value (Talbot, Coburn) returning from little compared to what I think they are worth due to this situation. I hope I'm wrong.
- five4fighting10

Trading Talbot won't really help too much. He's signed to a very cap friendly deal. I could see a team with cap space taking on Mez if Talbot was included in the deal.

All things being equal, I'd like to keep Talbot.

You can quibble with some of the contract terms, I don't love all the moves, but I think the Flyers have done a nice job reshaping the roster.

Sure there are question marks, but nearly every team has them. The key is improving the overall team defense, and somehow staying relatively healthy. If those happen, I think this is a solid playoff team.
- PLindbergh31

yeah some of the contracts could have been 500k-1m too high or a year too long, but in the end you guys got the right mix of players, it juts cap space and you guys can make it work.

I see playoff team for you guys, number 3-4 in the division as awild car. Rangers, Penguins, Islanders....I think this is the year you see Washington be exposed as the incomplete team that they are....they have been beating up on teams, and hardly last season, in a very bad division...having to play in a more competitive division, they will get bombed out

Not sure why they would trade Talbot. He's signed to a good term. Cleary and Talbot are somewhat similar players, but you can never have too many glue guys.
- PLindbergh31

For me the bottom line is, if the end result is the Flyers added a 34 year old Cleary, for more money, and subtracted a younger and cheaper Talbot. That's not a good move in my opinion. But it's just speculation at this point.

For me the bottom line is, if the end result is the Flyers added a 34 year old Cleary, for more money, and subtracted a younger and cheaper Talbot. That's not a good move in my opinion. But it's just speculation at this point.
- MJL

What if a team takes on Mez along with Talbot (for a very low draft pick) then the Flyers sign Gagne?

It was just some night before hockey gamesmanship.
Im giddy with hockey joy, and figured the best way to appease that was to spew a little Flyers hate.
The thing I hate most about him is that he is considering wearing a Flyers jersey.
- nbartley9

Ahhh, ok.

Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: Quick Hits on Cleary, Rookie Game, Alt, Leier
- bmeltzer

Bill, Often when you mention a prospect - Leier, in this case - I'll look them up on the Hockey Future website. I was just curious about your general opinion on their quality of ranking system. Leier is a "6.5C", which 6.5 means 3rd line forward potential, and C - he may reach that potential. Similar talent to Forwards: Trent Hunter, Manny Malhotra, Matt Cooke

However, the rankings are pretty broad - most Flyers winger are either 6 or 6.5, and B (should hit potential - McGinn/Wellwood have played as Flyers), C, or D (unlike to hit potential). Exceptions; Mathers is a 5.5D, and Akeson is 7.0D.

What if a team takes on Mez along with Talbot (for a very low draft pick) then the Flyers sign Gagne?
- PhillySportsGuy

Doesn't change anything.

Talbot would be an attractive asset for other teams because of his cap friendly price and what he brings to the ice.
- johndewar

Doesn't that make him an attractive asset to the Flyers?

Doesn't that make him an attractive asset to the Flyers?
- MJL

Indeed.

I was making the case for why other teams would want Talbot.

For me the bottom line is, if the end result is the Flyers added a 34 year old Cleary, for more money, and subtracted a younger and cheaper Talbot. That's not a good move in my opinion. But it's just speculation at this point.
- MJL

It's kind of early to make that call. We don't know what is coming back for Talbot... If Talbot was part of a bigger trade, aka getting a long term line 1A defenseman. I'd say fine.

Cleary was pick up for "free", and if he brings the same talent to the ice... Even if Talbot is traded for high draft pick (is first round too much to dream?), I'd say great. So, it is like we traded Talbot for Cleary + draft Pick. Cleary plays for a few years while the draft pick develops.

Cleary is a pretty big injury risk. He's been falling apart for years. He's been a bit of a warrior and played through injuries a lot but I doubt he will hold up for three more years. He can barely get up off the ice anymore, at least one of his knees is completely shot.

I like the guy so good for him but hopefully the Flyers know what they are getting. At least he's only 34 so I don't think they'll get stuck with the whole cap hit if he breaks down (like Pronger).

Detroit fans were as desperate for their team to get rid of Cleary as we all were to get rid of Briere. I think this will go down as one of Homer's most pointless signings. He didn't even wait till after trading Meszaros to use up all the cap space on a soon to be 35 third liner whose play has dropped off in the past couple of years.

No interest in trading Talbot. Signed to a great deal, can play on the 4th line at even strength to start, while also playing a large PK role.

Can move up to the 3rd line if one gets hurt, or if Read move up to the top-6.

Can fill in as 4th line center if Hall goes down.

Talbot is vital in many ways if Laughton doesn't make the team.

It's kind of early to make that call. We don't know what is coming back for Talbot... If Talbot was part of a bigger trade, aka getting a long term line 1A defenseman. I'd say fine.

Cleary was pick up for "free", and if he brings the same talent to the ice... Even if Talbot is traded for high draft pick (is first round too much to dream?), I'd say great. So, it is like we traded Talbot for Cleary + draft Pick. Cleary plays for a few years while the draft pick develops.
- leon neon

Which is why I ended with it's all just specualation at this point. And stated IF the end result is! . But I don't see Talbot fetching a first round pick.

Cleary is a pretty big injury risk. He's been falling apart for years. He's been a bit of a warrior and played through injuries a lot but I doubt he will hold up for three more years. He can barely get up off the ice anymore, at least one of his knees is completely shot.
- noffsin6

I'll just have to hope he fails the physical.

Cleary is a pretty big injury risk. He's been falling apart for years. He's been a bit of a warrior and played through injuries a lot but I doubt he will hold up for three more years. He can barely get up off the ice anymore, at least one of his knees is completely shot.

I like the guy so good for him but hopefully the Flyers know what they are getting. At least he's only 34 so I don't think they'll get stuck with the whole cap hit if he breaks down (like Pronger).
- noffsin6

Not sure how getting an eye gouged out with a stick is "breaking down"? And Cleary really looked shot in the playoffs.