well put him in the IHL, errr wait thats closed down....stupid Radek Bonk

I think Carlyle will make the right choice with him either wya.
- mykokes

carlyle's job is to make the right choice for the team, not the player.

i'll put this out there tho.. wouldnt be shocked to see him stay up for the first few games if franson continues to hold out

but it would be more of a message to franson than anything

and the point?

they are all guys who need someone reliable beside them

franson has fraser phaneuf has kostka gardiner had guys like gunnarsson and holzer

liles sat a lot once gardiner was in.. injuries in the playoffs forced some changes but i simply cannot see carlyle buying into the idea of having 5 of the 6 d-man in the starting lineup be guys who arent exactly the most defensively responsible in the world.

phaneuf gunnar
franson gardiner (good god this pairing would be BRUTAL defensively)
rielly fraser/liles

3rd pairing minutes.. no PP time.. yeah.. no.. he's going back to junior.. i will happily bet on it.
- Dozzer

They looked great to me in the playoffs against Boston. I saw a lot of Franson relying on Gardiner to get the puck out of the zone, and Franson covering the man in front of their own net. I have no issues with this pairing.

The point is, there aren't just two types of d-men. And guys who aren't PMD's shouldn't be relied on to get the puck out of our zone.

And I'm not disagreeing with you on Rielly, I just don't have him going anywhere yet because I don't know how he's progressed since the end of last season. For kids of his ilk, 4 to 6 months is an eternity in terms of development time. Guys like him tend to take huge steps in development, it's not a long a drawn out process. I also view last year as a year where he made a huge comeback so the kid understand the value of working his ass off. Both Murray and Trouba have good shots of making their teams too, and from what I hear, Rielly's development is going great. And likewise, for the reasons you state he should go back to junior, I can also see that happening. Carlyle will give him a shot if he earns it like Fowler did in Anaheim, if he doesn't then yes, of course back to junior he goes.

carlyle's job is to make the right choice for the team, not the player.
- Dozzer

I didn't say otherwise.

They looked great to me in the playoffs against Boston. I saw a lot of Franson relying on Gardiner to get the puck out of the zone, and Franson covering the man in front of their own net. I have no issues with this pairing.

The point is, there aren't just two types of d-men. And guys who aren't PMD's shouldn't be relied on to get the puck out of our zone.

And I'm not disagreeing with you on Rielly, I just don't have him going anywhere yet because I don't know how he's progressed since the end of last season. For kids of his ilk, 4 to 6 months is an eternity in terms of development time. Guys like him tend to take huge steps in development, it's not a long a drawn out process. I also view last year as a year where he made a huge comeback so the kid understand the value of working his ass off. Both Murray and Trouba have good shots of making their teams too, and from what I hear, Rielly's development is going great. And likewise, for the reasons you state he should go back to junior, I can also see that happening. Carlyle will give him a shot if he earns it like Fowler did in Anaheim, if he doesn't then yes, of course back to junior he goes.
- mykokes

see.. i didnt think they were that good defensively.. carlyle matched them up with lesser lines and left the bulk of the hard work to the other guys.. made them look better than they were.

and yes.. its not black and white but phaneuf is not great defensively, neither is liles, gardiner, or franson

to put a green rushing d-man into this lineup would be foolish

that d-core needs more stability, not splash.

and the point?

they are all guys who need someone reliable beside them

franson has fraser phaneuf has kostka gardiner had guys like gunnarsson and holzer

liles sat a lot once gardiner was in.. injuries in the playoffs forced some changes but i simply cannot see carlyle buying into the idea of having 5 of the 6 d-man in the starting lineup be guys who arent exactly the most defensively responsible in the world.

phaneuf gunnar
franson gardiner (good god this pairing would be BRUTAL defensively)
rielly fraser/liles

3rd pairing minutes.. no PP time.. yeah.. no.. he's going back to junior.. i will happily bet on it.
- Dozzer

who did they trade Ranger to?

I like Leivo a lot.
- mykokes

Me too.

see.. i didnt think they were that good defensively.. carlyle matched them up with lesser lines and left the bulk of the hard work to the other guys.. made them look better than they were.

and yes.. its not black and white but phaneuf is not great defensively, neither is liles, gardiner, or franson

to put a green rushing d-man into this lineup would be foolish

that d-core needs more stability, not splash.
- Dozzer

I'm kind of hoping Ranger might surprise us. And I don't disagree at all with you on any of your points....maybe a little Dion, but on the others, no disagreement at all.

I saw Gardiner and Franson out there a lot against Bergeron and Seguin so I'm not so sure they were that sheltered, but I respect your viewpoint.

I'm kind of hoping Ranger might surprise us. And I don't disagree at all with you on any of your points....maybe a little Dion, but on the others, no disagreement at all.

I saw Gardiner and Franson out there a lot against Bergeron and Seguin so I'm not so sure they were that sheltered, but I respect your viewpoint.
- mykokes

yeah but if you remember seguin was struggling. and bergeron isnt a huge force offensively.. he's good.. not great.

i just think rielly will be sent back to junior.. unless he is heads and tails above the rest.. and i just dont think he is there yet.

also.. how much space left on the cap after franson and kadri sign will play a role as well.

Me too.
- burn

Yeah he looked good last night...decent size, skates well.

who did they trade Ranger to?
- bobbyisno1

i dont think they did?

but yeah..he is a guy i see making the team.. signed for a year.. responsible defender.. a guy who doesnt take a whole lot of risks.. carlyle will love him

yeah but if you remember seguin was struggling. and bergeron isnt a huge force offensively.. he's good.. not great.

i just think rielly will be sent back to junior.. unless he is heads and tails above the rest.. and i just dont think he is there yet.

also.. how much space left on the cap after franson and kadri sign will play a role as well.
- Dozzer

Likely flirting with 1M or less

this i agree with.. they really should change that rule
- Dozzer

I think that rule is likely there to appease the Juniour leagues. Think about it, once these guys are drafted really high, they are going to start bringing in more fans to the junior games, just to see them play. Otherwise all the talent will always be gone before the junior teams can cash in.

I for one live in London, and don't follow the knights that closely, but when the Leafs drafted Kadri, and then sent him back to OHL the first year. I actually attended a dozen games or so, and followed the teams stats, website etc. just to see him play/progress.

I'm kind of hoping Ranger might surprise us. And I don't disagree at all with you on any of your points....maybe a little Dion, but on the others, no disagreement at all.

I saw Gardiner and Franson out there a lot against Bergeron and Seguin so I'm not so sure they were that sheltered, but I respect your viewpoint.
- mykokes

Gardiner and Franson certainly weren't sheltered in game 7, but they failed the test in a big way.

Franson still doesn't use his size effectively enough to be a reliable force in his own end. I think that's why Fraser helped his game so much. And Gardiner needs that kind of steady presence, as well.

As weird as this sounds, Liles and O'Byrne were our best pairing in that catastrophe. 0 goals allowed. I still hold out hope that we find a buyer for Liles because when he's healthy, he is a very composed, level-headed defenseman, even in his own end.

I think that rule is likely there to appease the Juniour leagues. Think about it, once these guys are drafted really high, they are going to start bringing in more fans to the junior games, just to see them play. Otherwise all the talent will always be gone before the junior teams can cash in.

I for one live in London, and don't follow the knights that closely, but when the Leafs drafted Kadri, and then sent him back to OHL the first year. I actually attended a dozen games or so, and followed the teams stats, website etc. just to see him play/progress.
- vermie22

interesting.. tho i think the age limit in the AHL pre-dates juniors.. i shoudl look that up

I'm nude...quite a draft coming from somewhere...Starting to think i need new windows..

6-1 Leafs...

interesting.. tho i think the age limit in the AHL pre-dates juniors.. i shoudl look that up
- Dozzer

just know that some junior teams are pretty big business, and thought they would likely be pretty pissed every time one of their top players was drafted, and then they were immediately sent to a different league to develop more.

I think that rule is likely there to appease the Juniour leagues. Think about it, once these guys are drafted really high, they are going to start bringing in more fans to the junior games, just to see them play. Otherwise all the talent will always be gone before the junior teams can cash in.

I for one live in London, and don't follow the knights that closely, but when the Leafs drafted Kadri, and then sent him back to OHL the first year. I actually attended a dozen games or so, and followed the teams stats, website etc. just to see him play/progress.
- vermie22

nope... NHL / CHL agreement..learned something today

http://prospectsannex.blo...y-juniors-have-to-be.html

I didn't see the game, but it sounds like Leivo was the standout. Where did French have him in his Leafs prospect rankings?

Gardiner and Franson certainly weren't sheltered in game 7, but they failed the test in a big way.

Franson still doesn't use his size effectively enough to be a reliable force in his own end. I think that's why Fraser helped his game so much. And Gardiner needs that kind of steady presence, as well.

As weird as this sounds, Liles and O'Byrne were our best pairing in that catastrophe. 0 goals allowed. I still hold out hope that we find a buyer for Liles because when he's healthy, he is a very composed, level-headed defenseman, even in his own end.
- Leeman4Gilmour

Against Boston's 4th line almost exclusively I would imagine. Not as impressive as it looks without context.

nope... NHL / CHL agreement..learned something today

http://prospectsannex.blo...y-juniors-have-to-be.html
- Dozzer

Ha, lucky guess on my part.

nope... NHL / CHL agreement..learned something today

http://prospectsannex.blo...y-juniors-have-to-be.html
- Dozzer

Good read, also outlines a possible advantage of going the american college route for players born after January. Kinda like D'Amigo i guess except he ended up getting sent down to the CHL anyway.

Stupid rule he can't play in the AHL
- robin_steele264

probably better for him to be around kids his own age then the drunks in the ahl

Good read, also outlines a possible advantage of going the american college route for players born after January. Kinda like D'Amigo i guess except he ended up getting sent down to the CHL anyway.
- ky678468

yeah.. many NHL teams prefer the guys to go to the CHL so they can solely focus on hockey without really worrying about their grades.