I am saying when teams hit rock bottom they hire Slump Buster Burke. Canucks Leafs and Ducks all did it.

The Flames are the new rock bottom so he will come in for a few years and change things.
- VANTEL

Then as the team is at a cornerstone and about to turnaround he will be let go and blamed that he didn't do enough or couldn't get it done. Nonuts will come in and play hero. Don't worry he will be long gone from TO by the time Burke's time has run its course in Calgary.

Burke signed beauchemin, traded him for lupul and Gardiner. Burke signed lebda, traded him with slaney for franson (and Lombardi). Three key pieces of the team acquired from nothing. Whatever he lost in the kessel trade he gained back in those deals. And top ten scorers (kessel) don't grow on trees either. We wanted a star, he got us one

I'm not faulting him for drafting well in the early first round. My point is that outside top 10 picks, he's got a brutal record.

Let's be honest here. The majority of top 10 picks make the NHL. You could just go with the TSN rankings and get a solid NHLer when you're picking in the top 10.

The guys from 15-30, not as much. He's had plenty of late first rounders and 2nd round picks. You'd think that, over a decade, he'd have at least a few turn out. None.

Seriously, go check it out for yourself. Hockey db has all the teams draft history.
- Charliebox

But what team would want a 2nd rounder turn out and make the team for 7 years, when you can trade for a guy close to a new contract and have to pay him 5 plus mil to play on your second line.

Burke = genius

If your laughing at the nuclear winter that was the Leafs, after the JFJ days, then you don't understand. JFJ left nothing on the farm, traded away allot of first round picks for deadwood and left the Leafs franchise in total disrepair. Burke added many young pieces, working with nothing but deadwood, and put them on the path to a playoff spot. You can teehee, being a Sens fan, but the Leafs are better off and will give the Sens all of the grief that they deserve.
- PrinceLH

Exactly.

Won a Cup with the Ducks. Got the Nucks back on track, bringing in the Greg Louganis and the twins, and then build much of the core of the Leafs.

I'd care less if he was a p-rick, and look at his track record in rebuilding organizations. Flames need all the help they can get.

He can make trades with the best of him, just don't let him come to work in the summer. He has made some bad free agent signings. His schtick will work in a blue collar town like Calgary, his loudmouth and bravado just don't cut it in the corporate arena unfortunately.

Hurry up with Kadri TO...Burke smells blood.
- DDM-Coga

Exactly!

Maybe you should follow who is in charge in Calgary as of right now. Are you trying to tell me that Feaster is better than Burke? Are you trying to say that Ken King has more hockey knowledge than Burke?
- nigelwright275

Umm, the bar is not exactly being set high here in support of your argument.

Brian Burke is the most overrated hockey man in the NHL.

He did well to get the twins in Van but never realized that you need a goalie to win a cup.

He was handed a Stanley cup winner in Anaheim. Sure he added Neidermayer (but he wanted to go there anyways and play with his bro - a monkey could have made that signing) and Pronger, but other than that, the Ducks were Bryan Murray's team.

He set the Leafs back by at least 2-3 years. Sure, the Leafs finally made the playoffs last season and he was the one who built that team. With that said, any average GM could have eventually done that with the money and high draft picks the Leafs have had over the past decade.
I'm not saying he is going to hurt in Calgary (and to be honest, if there's one guy he's better than, it's probably Feaster), but I wouldn't be getting too excited if I'm a flames fan. Now instead of having just the worst GM in the league, you have the worst GM in the league with the most overrated hockey guy sitting beside him.
- Charliebox

So you're saying without the Kessel trade, the Leafs would've made the playoffs in 2009-10?
And what do you mean with the money? We have a salary cap right? Don't tell the high draft picks thing to Oilers fans.

Anyone who thinks Burke is responsible for the cup in ANH over Murray only needs look at OTT.

He built the prospect depth and had that team moving forward just like he did in ANH.

Only Burke got to come in and finsh the job, he didn't have to come in and draft and develop his core and prospect depth and had many assets to trade with thanks to Murray.

He couldn't pull off those trades without the assets already there.

So you're saying without the Kessel trade, the Leafs would've made the playoffs in 2009-10?
And what do you mean with the money? We have a salary cap right? Don't tell the high draft picks thing to Oilers fans.
- walshyleafsfan

Oiler fans remember winning, and being to the finals. Leaf fans remember making the time they made the playoffs. Those high picks are a nice consolation to years of mediocrity.

So you're saying without the Kessel trade, the Leafs would've made the playoffs in 2009-10?
And what do you mean with the money? We have a salary cap right? Don't tell the high draft picks thing to Oilers fans.
- walshyleafsfan

There is a major difference between making the playoffs and being a contender.

The Leafs were a playoff team last year, but they aren't even guaranteed it this year. They are a bubble team, with really no chance at winning the cup. Their D is too weak, they don't have much depth up front (a brutal 4th line that won't see any time and will tire out the other 3 lines), and next to no prospects. All of this, and they are almost at the cap right now.

How are they going to get any better in the next few years? Unless the cap goes up drastically, there isn't much hope for them. They don't have any players coming up for cheap and they still have to sign Kadri.

Had he built through the draft, he'd have cheaper players and cap space to go out and get some big names as well.

He set them back 2-3 years from being a contender, not just a bubble playoff team that loses in the first two rounds.

Basically, he built the Leafs to look just as they did in the late 90's and early 2000s. A team that can make the playoffs once and awhile, and go a couple rounds, but realistically, has no shot at the cup.

Hurry up with Kadri TO...Burke smells blood
.
- DDM-Coga

Dreger is rushing around ike a chicken without a head to see if they have TSN in Calgary.

Anyone who thinks Burke is responsible for the cup in ANH over Murray only needs look at OTT.

He built the prospect depth and had that team moving forward just like he did in ANH.

Only Burke got to come in and finsh the job, he didn't have to come in and draft and develop his core and prospect depth and had many assets to trade with thanks to Murray.

He couldn't pull off those trades without the assets already there.
- yaktalksback

How long has Murray been in Ottawa? What has he really accomplished? They've been in and out of the playoffs ever since he showed up. The one year they made the finals, by your logic, was Muckler's team. The fact is that Burke has won a cup as a GM and Murray hasn't.

So I was thinking about my point that the Leafs don't have much for prospects.

Here's Burke's drafting history.
5 years in Van - Sedins and Kessler
2 years with Anaheim - Bobby Ryan and Smid
Toronto - Schenn and Kadri.

That's it!

Go look through these teams drafting history. The Sedins were 2nd and 3rd overall, so outside the good trade he made... pretty much can't miss selections.
Bobby Ryan was 2nd overall, so again, can't miss.
Kadri was a good pick.
Schenn.. well whatever.

He has no good late first rounders, 2nd rounders or even late round steals. The guy drafted in the NHL for over a decade and outside his top 10 picks, he's had TWO players become everyday NHL players. That is brutal.

You can say all you want that it's more on the scouts than it is on the GM, but at the end of the day, he's the boss of the scouts. It also happened in 3 different cities so to blame the scouts is a bit rich.

I hope to god that Calgary isn't banking on him on draft day.
- Charliebox

K Charliebox, let's put it a slightly different way.

Roster when Burke arrived:
Antropov
Blake
Colaiacovo
Frogren
Grabovski
Hagman
Kaberle
Kubina
Kulemin
Mayers
Mitchell
Moore
Ponikarovsky
Schenn
Stajan
Steen
Tllusty
Van Ryn
Toskala

Roster when Burke Left:
Reimer
Kessel
Bozak
Van Reimsdyk
Lupul
Kadri
Frattin
MacArthur
Grabovski
Kulemin
Orr
McClement
Lombardi
Phaneuf
Gunnarson
Gardiner
Liles
Fraser
Franson

Not included: Rielly, Finn, Percy, Granberg, Nilsson, Biggs, McKegg, Leivo, Broll

Now surely you think the roster he left us with is better than he inherited. And in only 4 years as well.

How long has Murray been in Ottawa? What has he really accomplished? They've been in and out of the playoffs ever since he showed up. The one year they made the finals, by your logic, was Muckler's team. The fact is that Burke has won a cup as a GM and Murray hasn't.
- Jeffmt

Sather won how many as GM? How has that been working out the past 10 yrs in NY?

By your logic he is the best GM currently.

Guys.. I said he's overrated.. not terrible. Huge difference. Think of an overrated player. They are still average to good players..

I'm pointing out why he is overrated. Not why he is bad.

If you had to rank GMs in the past decade, I would rank him somewhere around the average. Not great, but not terrible.

He is overrated
1. because in his first NHL job, he didn't realize that Dan Cloutier wasn't going to take the Nucks anywhere. Listen to interviews he gave during that time and how highly he talked of Cloutier. The guy sucked.. plain and simple.
2. his Stanley cup win wasn't a team he groomed for 5-10 years before that. He was handed the majority of that team.
3. he did set the leafs back. He made a bad trade with Boston. He made a few bad signings. Grabo had to be bought out this summer cause he was massively overpaid. He also spoke of 'truculence' and brought in tough players, then decided to hire a coach who didn't coach that style. An average GM could have done the same thing with the Leafs over the same time span that Burke had with them.
- Charliebox

Nice backtrack.

He made mistakes in Toronto...his FA signings weren't great and he gave out 2 terrible contracts to current Leafs. But his trades were fantastic and he did what he'll have to do in Calgary...build the Organization. This is everything from the scouting department (which is obviously terrible currently), the development team, the practice facility...everything. He's a builder....he'll build. This team needs it.

BTW...the Kessel deal was a win.

Oiler fans remember winning, and being to the finals. Leaf fans remember making the time they made the playoffs. Those high picks are a nice consolation to years of mediocrity.
- yaktalksback

Are imlying that all Leafs fans are under 50 years old?

Sather won how many as GM? How has that been working out the past 10 yrs in NY?

By your logic he is the best GM currently.
- yaktalksback

Sather has been just as successful in NY as Murray has in Ottawa. In fact, I'd like to see their playoff records for those two teams side by side.

Nice backtrack.

He made mistakes in Toronto...his FA signings weren't great and he gave out 2 terrible contracts to current Leafs. But his trades were fantastic and he did what he'll have to do in Calgary...build the Organization. This is everything from the scouting department (which is obviously terrible currently), the development team, the practice facility...everything. He's a builder....he'll build. This team needs it.

BTW...the Kessel deal was a win.
- djamon

Read my first post. It's not a backtrack whatsoever. When someone says a player is 'overrated' do they mean he is terrible? No, generally it means, he is overpaid or over hyped.

As for the Kessel deal, sure it was a win in the short term. Deals like that, aren't how you build contenders, though. You build them through the draft. Look at the majority of past cup winners. Most of their stars are homegrown. Then they fill in the gap.

What happens if Kessel decides not to resign?

The fact that Seguin and Hamilton (or whomever he would have drafted) aren't FAs for a long time, makes it a loss IMO.

As I said, he built a bubble playoff team. If that's all you want, then fine. I think most Leaf fans would disagree, though. I think most people would take another year or two of pain for a legitimate Stanley cup contender.

So the American has to ride into Calgary to clean up his third Canadian team? Ironic isn't it?

Prospect!

Also, in the top 10.

Again, he drafted for over a decade.. where's all these guys in the NHL drafted by Brian Burke?

Do my research? Go check it out for yourself. It's pretty easy.
- Charliebox

Bieksa in the 5th, Ruutu in the 3rd, Bryan Allen and RJ Umberger each played over 600 games. Manny Legace in the 8th round. Your "research" is very selective.

There is a major difference between making the playoffs and being a contender.

The Leafs were a playoff team last year, but they aren't even guaranteed it this year. They are a bubble team, with really no chance at winning the cup. Their D is too weak, they don't have much depth up front (a brutal 4th line that won't see any time and will tire out the other 3 lines), and next to no prospects. All of this, and they are almost at the cap right now.

How are they going to get any better in the next few years? Unless the cap goes up drastically, there isn't much hope for them. They don't have any players coming up for cheap and they still have to sign Kadri.

Had he built through the draft, he'd have cheaper players and cap space to go out and get some big names as well.

He set them back 2-3 years from being a contender, not just a bubble playoff team that loses in the first two rounds.

Basically, he built the Leafs to look just as they did in the late 90's and early 2000s. A team that can make the playoffs once and awhile, and go a couple rounds, but realistically, has no shot at the cup.
- Charliebox

I feel your deep hatred for the Leafs is slightly clouding your judgement. Every year, there are legimately 4 or 5 contenders. People are listing the Sens as contenders this year, which blows my mind. So, when the Sens do not win the Cup this season, t can be seen as an unsuccessful year. Anyway, i digress.

You mention no prospects. I'm sure you are referring to the Kessel trade. We could've had two whole more prospects during Burke's time here. Two. Seguin (who i am sure would be in rehab by now, had he played in Toronto) and Hamilton. Not too muh hope for this Knight kid. So the absolute crap job Burke did, is because we don't have Seguin (neither do Boston) and Hamilton. He added Gardiner, Colborne (not great) Kadri, Rielly (high hopes for) Finn, Percy,Biggs, Leivo and a few others.

How many prospects would you propose Burke should've garnered during his 4 years here. Let's bare in mind he has principles and pride and wouldn't just mail seasons in like the Oilers. He felt he was paid to do a job, and intentionally poopting the bed for four years, probably wasn't in the job description when they mentioned his salary figure.

As for no D you mentioned. For this year, i do agree with you. All our D needs in time though. In the near future we should see a D containing some of Gardiner, Rielly, Franson, Fraser, Finn, Percy, maybe Phaneuf (not sure)

So I was thinking about my point that the Leafs don't have much for prospects.

Here's Burke's drafting history.
5 years in Van - Sedins and Kessler
2 years with Anaheim - Bobby Ryan and Smid
Toronto - Schenn and Kadri.

That's it!

Go look through these teams drafting history. The Sedins were 2nd and 3rd overall, so outside the good trade he made... pretty much can't miss selections.
Bobby Ryan was 2nd overall, so again, can't miss.
Kadri was a good pick.
Schenn.. well whatever.

He has no good late first rounders, 2nd rounders or even late round steals. The guy drafted in the NHL for over a decade and outside his top 10 picks, he's had TWO players become everyday NHL players. That is brutal.

You can say all you want that it's more on the scouts than it is on the GM, but at the end of the day, he's the boss of the scouts. It also happened in 3 different cities so to blame the scouts is a bit rich.

I hope to god that Calgary isn't banking on him on draft day.
- Charliebox

Your posts are full of misinformation and inaccuracies.
Van was Burkes first NHL job, Burke Drafted Schenn??... how can you have such an opinion when your info is so wrong....

comments like..he only added Neidermeiyer and Pronger..thats its

Who drafted Jake Gardiner and Justin Shultz in Anaheim?
if you put his draft record up against others....its comparable.. there are way more misses than hits for everyone

Read my first post. It's not a backtrack whatsoever. When someone says a player is 'overrated' do they mean he is terrible? No, generally it means, he is overpaid or over hyped.

As for the Kessel deal, sure it was a win in the short term. Deals like that, aren't how you build contenders, though. You build them through the draft. Look at the majority of past cup winners. Most of their stars are homegrown. Then they fill in the gap.

What happens if Kessel decides not to resign?
The fact that Seguin and Hamilton (or whomever he would have drafted) aren't FAs for a long time, makes it a loss IMO.

As I said, he built a bubble playoff team. If that's all you want, then fine. I think most Leaf fans would disagree, though. I think most people would take another year or two of pain for a legitimate Stanley cup contender.
- Charliebox

He's gone from being poop who needs Savard to inconsistent, to greedy and selfish to one dimensional to maybe not wanting to resign. Where the (frank) would he go. Every other team's fans hate him and think he's crap apparantly. THe only people that stick up for him are Leafs fans, so i'm sure we will be fine here.

How long has Murray been in Ottawa? What has he really accomplished? They've been in and out of the playoffs ever since he showed up. The one year they made the finals, by your logic, was Muckler's team. The fact is that Burke has won a cup as a GM and Murray hasn't.
- Jeffmt

It was Muckler's team when the Sens went to the cup. Problem was, he was terrible at managing the cap, and screwed the Sens with Redden over Chara and the Heatley trade.

There was a ton of work to be done when Murray went to Ottawa.

What has Murray done?
Drafted a top 3 NHL Dman 15th overall.
Got out of the Heatley fiasco with a better player
Drafted a top 4 Dman who will be an absolute beast (Cowen).
Traded a bottom 6 winger for a top four Dman and a team Canada invite (Foligno for Methot).
Traded for the goalie with the best numbers in the NHL last season.
Traded an AHL Dman (Rundblad) for a 2nd line center (Turris).
Drafted another great goaltender which now gives Ottawa the best tandem in the league.
Drafted two guys that he was able to send to Ahaheim for a 30 goal scorer (a late first rounder and an early 2nd rounder for the 2nd overall pick in Ryan).
Traded a 2nd round pick for a goaltender (Bishop) that he then moved for a guy that had a ton of points in his rookie season (Conacher).
Made a ton of good draft picks that pretty much fill out the rest of the team.

Seriously..just look at Murray's draft history and compare that to Burke. It's night and day.

All of this, while operating with a ridiculous internal cap.