Here's my thinking....After this year it will be about $70 mill and then can be at least $75 the following year.

I didn't say $80 mill but basically over $75 mill.

...And I trust Tim but by the time the pretzel gets to me it will be hard as the blade on my old Northland...Will have to meet you between periods and get it while it is warm!
- Al

Anyone know if TT will be at training camp?? I am thrilled with his signing anc can't wait to see what he can do. Anyone know?

Anyone know if TT will be at training camp?? I am thrilled with his signing anc can't wait to see what he can do. Anyone know?
- flyerdude17

I don't know. Good question. I know Jokerit's season starts starts sometime next week.

Great to see that you worry about league revenue vs. attendance (you should work for NHL). I agree that league will increase revenue (and probably attendance) this upcoming season, because of all outdoor games that are scheduled for this season. But, that is not "organic and sustainable growth," it is artificial growth that will become stagnant when the league reaches the max # of outdoor game the market is willing to support (ECON 100 supply/demand). When the market becomes stagnant, then salary cap will becaome stagnant.

What league needs is the sustainable growth in actual/real attendance. That will only come when small market teams start putting people in seats. Currently, teams count attendance of tickets sold to corporations, and season ticket holders whether or not they attend the game. Yes, it is league revenue. But, teams/owners are really at a loss because any empty seat means lost revenue/profits on concessions (and parking), where they make most money.
- Nerko77

League revenue is what drives the salary cap, Nerk, and that is why I care about it. Because the salary cap might (or might not) be the reason the Hawks don't resign Hammer. And the league will have higher ticket revenue irrespective of the outdoor games. I agree that a lot of no-shows affects revenue. Right now, though, the league's biggest markets have teams that are competitive and drawing full houses. As I asked above - how often has the cap gone down (except for this past year's negotiated drop) since its inception?

This means they lose some concession money, but it also means those tickets have already been paid for. The clubs take selling 90% of the tickets even if only 65% show up
- rollpards19

Really? I wonder if they use those numbers when they try to sell sponsorships.

Anybody think that Crawford will be affected more than the average goalie with the new pad restrictions?
- carcus

I think I brought that up the pad reduction issue yesterday....a whole lot of goalies wore "erection" pads, and now they will have less padding across their torso.

Crawfprd has pretty good flippers right now.

The pads only caught more pucks but I don't see he suddenly losing his methodical positioning his movement, his lateral quickness.

Like everyone else I think we wait and see.

Do you think he loses confidence in his abilities after he gives up a few goals?

Back to hammer again:

Apparently the past playoff run was huge reveal to the entire board here....of both Oduya and Hammer's over all smarts and quickness.

Everybody here at the start of the season and prior debated just which potential second line cente guy we could steal for him.

I guess Hammer suddenly blossomed?

What really changed was how at the start of this last free agency how carelessly GM threw money at defenseman.

I will say it again:
If Hammer wants to continue to have a chance at winning and playing with guys who as a unit make the game easy, he figures it out and stays.

If hammer wants the best deal he can get more and go play in a city where they will expect him to be a first pair type in all phases, and the team around him will be less skilled, and not that close to knocking distance.

...but we all including bowman have no control over that if he wants to go.

It is a very similar situation to Bickell's.
No one here expects Bickell to become the Big M, just be what the gamer he was when the chips were down.
IF bickell does ever score say 25-30 goals, it is a bonsus.

If Crawford improves in all phases in his tiny ass pads, and is an even bigger and stronger monster, bonsus.

I think the hawks are happy if the continue to be what they are...

I don't know. Good question. I know Jokerit's season starts starts sometime next week.
- EKolb13

I know it is unrealistic to think of him making the team this year but down the road I just can't wait to see how good this kid is going to be. All indications are that he is a very special player and his skill level is off the charts. I drafted him in his draft year and he is my biggest prize, lol

I know it is unrealistic to think of him making the team this year but down the road I just can't wait to see how good this kid is going to be. All indications are that he is a very special player and his skill level is off the charts. I drafted him in his draft year and he is my biggest prize, lol
- flyerdude17

I'm not sure about camp, either, but it's been said all summer (including by the team, I believe) that the plan is for TT to play another year in Finland and then come to North America. Not sure if they've changed that plan, but I doubt it. They could, though, bring him to camp for the experience (if they are able to do so).

I think I brought that up the pad reduction issue yesterday....a whole lot of goalies wore "erection" pads, and now they will have less padding across their torso.

Crawfprd has pretty good flippers right now.

The pads only caught more pucks but I don't see he suddenly losing his methodical positioning his movement, his lateral quickness.

Like everyone else I think we wait and see.

Do you think he loses confidence in his abilities after he gives up a few goals?

- wiz1901

I just think it is going to be hard for some to adjust. Crawford (along with many others) are going to lose several inches off their pads. That is going to mean either opening up their five hole more, or opening up the posts more if they keep their knees closer together when they go down in the butterfly.

It is going to open up more of the net, so it will be an adjustment.

I'm not sure about camp, either, but it's been said all summer (including by the team, I believe) that the plan is for TT to play another year in Finland and then come to North America. Not sure if they've changed that plan, but I doubt it. They could, though, bring him to camp for the experience (if they are able to do so).
- mohel

That is probably the plan, another year in the Finnish Elite League and he will be pretty close to playing in the NHL. Sure do not want to rush him. Selanne took his time getting here and he scored 76 goals in his rookie season,lol.

That is probably the plan, another year in the Finnish Elite League and he will be pretty close to playing in the NHL. Sure do not want to rush him. Selanne took his time getting here and he scored 76 goals in his rookie season,lol.
- flyerdude17

Ironic that Selanne played for Jokereit as well and spent three years there before coming to Winnipeg where he scored 76 goals as a 22 year old rookie.

Last I heard, Teuvo Teravainen will be at camp this year.

Really? I wonder if they use those numbers when they try to sell sponsorships.
- Nerko77

To follow up on StLBravesFan above... Last year 20 teams were at 99%+ of capacity in tickets sold. There were an additional 6 teams over 90%. The last four are Colorado, NYI, PHO and CBJ; each of which is likely to see increased attendance for various reasons (new personnel, new arena, actual owner, up and coming team). The league is selling tickets very well and will be able to raise prices every year - that is sustainable organic growth. Regional sports contracts are currently rising very quickly. The Canadian broadcast contract is up; and the prices for the US contracts can only go up (they are very low). There are many reasons for the cap to grow; what are your reasons why it won't?

Last I heard, Teuvo Teravainen will be at camp this year.
- ArlingtonRob

Sweet - it'll be good to hear some reports about how he looks against NHLers. It would also be fun to see him in a pre-season game or two.

League revenue is what drives the salary cap, Nerk, and that is why I care about it. Because the salary cap might (or might not) be the reason the Hawks don't resign Hammer. And the league will have higher ticket revenue irrespective of the outdoor games. I agree that a lot of no-shows affects revenue. Right now, though, the league's biggest markets have teams that are competitive and drawing full houses. As I asked above - how often has the cap gone down (except for this past year's negotiated drop) since its inception?
- mohel

1. Hammer is my fav player on D, and I would rather have him at $6M/y than Crow at $6M/y. It's obvious that salray cap is not the reason whether or not Hammer is resigned, but rather the front office decision on who would they rather have.

2. League was at the bottom following the lockout of 2004/05. Sponsorships were at the lowest and TV deal they gor for US was all but lucrative. It was rather easy to increase revenue year-over-year, especially after the emergence of BHawks in one of the biggest markets, introductions of outdoor games, franchise move to Winnipeg, stronger Canadian $, etc. The answer to your question is NO, although negotiated drop is a direct market correction (teams/owners were losing money and that could not go like that forever), as was the first introduction of cap in 2004/05.

I am just wondering why you are asking a question about past, where you should be asking a question about future. If past is any indication of the future, than the cap should be rising in the foreseeable future, when another market correction is in order.

I think I brought that up the pad reduction issue yesterday....a whole lot of goalies wore "erection" pads, and now they will have less padding across their torso.

Crawfprd has pretty good flippers right now.

The pads only caught more pucks but I don't see he suddenly losing his methodical positioning his movement, his lateral quickness.

Like everyone else I think we wait and see.

Do you think he loses confidence in his abilities after he gives up a few goals?

Back to hammer again:

Apparently the past playoff run was huge reveal to the entire board here....of both Oduya and Hammer's over all smarts and quickness.

Everybody here at the start of the season and prior debated just which potential second line cente guy we could steal for him.

I guess Hammer suddenly blossomed?

What really changed was how at the start of this last free agency how carelessly GM threw money at defenseman.

I will say it again:
If Hammer wants to continue to have a chance at winning and playing with guys who as a unit make the game easy, he figures it out and stays.

If hammer wants the best deal he can get more and go play in a city where they will expect him to be a first pair type in all phases, and the team around him will be less skilled, and not that close to knocking distance.

...but we all including bowman have no control over that if he wants to go.

It is a very similar situation to Bickell's.
No one here expects Bickell to become the Big M, just be what the gamer he was when the chips were down.
IF bickell does ever score say 25-30 goals, it is a bonsus.

If Crawford improves in all phases in his tiny ass pads, and is an even bigger and stronger monster, bonsus.

I think the hawks are happy if the continue to be what they are...
- wiz1901

Excuse me? I don't ever recall debating what 2d line center the Hawks should trade the Hammer for. I do how ever recall saying that the faithful here would start missing him by the second month of the season. There were a couple more of us (RickJ comes to mind) who also felt along the same lines. Please stop with all these sweeping "everybody here" statements.

To follow up on StLBravesFan above... Last year 20 teams were at 99%+ of capacity in tickets sold. There were an additional 6 teams over 90%. The last four are Colorado, NYI, PHO and CBJ; each of which is likely to see increased attendance for various reasons (new personnel, new arena, actual owner, up and coming team). The league is selling tickets very well and will be able to raise prices every year - that is sustainable organic growth. Regional sports contracts are currently rising very quickly. The Canadian broadcast contract is up; and the prices for the US contracts can only go up (they are very low). There are many reasons for the cap to grow; what are your reasons why it won't?
- mohel

Nowhere did I say that cap will not be rising. Go back and re-read my posts. What I am saying is that you need to put people in seats (not only sell tickets and see empty seats) if you want the sport/league to grow. Owners make more money, the more seats are filled. If you keep raising prices, you will reach the point where it becomes counterproductive (Econ 101).

Double post... sorry...

1. Hammer is my fav player on D, and I would rather have him at $6M/y than Crow at $6M/y. It's obvious that salray cap is not the reason whether or not Hammer is resigned, but rather the front office decision on who would they rather have.

2. League was at the bottom following the lockout of 2004/05. Sponsorships were at the lowest and TV deal they gor for US was all but lucrative. It was rather easy to increase revenue year-over-year, especially after the emergence of BHawks in one of the biggest markets, introductions of outdoor games, franchise move to Winnipeg, stronger Canadian $, etc. The answer to your question is NO, although negotiated drop is a direct market correction (teams/owners were losing money and that could not go like that forever), as was the first introduction of cap in 2004/05.

I am just wondering why you are asking a question about past, where you should be asking a question about future. If past is any indication of the future, than the cap should be rising in the foreseeable future, when another market correction is in order.
- Nerko77

I too, am a fan of Hammer. I don't understand at all how you can say it is obvious it isn't about the cap. Without the cap, the Hawks would certainly re-sign him.

About your second point - I guess we'll just have to disagree. I see the cap continuing to grow (likely at a pretty good pace), and it seems you see it remaining where it is or growing very little. Time will tell, I guess.

Run the numbers on capgeek.com It gets very scary, very quickly....the HUGE variable is what % the cap goes up....even at 10% next year....it's still very tight, and going into 2015 I just dont' see how all the core is still here.....

What happens if Raanta is a Niemi type goalie? Can you really stick your 6 million a year guy on the bench for 30+ games to play Raanta?

Here's another HUGE variable, I haven't seen mentioned anywhere......lets see how the loss of Waite plays into all of this. Waite really got Corey on board a few times the past couple of years when he hit some turbulence....Can Steve Weeks do the same? That....I'm not sure of.....

Again....why not wait until December...a motivated Crawford to earn an Olympic spot, a new contract, could have probably been had for the exact deal he just signed.....Especially, when the Hawks had all the leverage.
- SteveRain

I can't argue with any of this. I am not sure what they're thinking. It seems monumentally idiotic unless they know some things the rest of us don't (ie cap inflation, a plan to move an Oduya, etc). Which I am prepared to believe is possible.

Sweet - it'll be good to hear some reports about how he looks against NHLers. It would also be fun to see him in a pre-season game or two.
- mohel

Personally, if you send him out with a couple of skill guys, like maybe Sharp and Hossa, I will be a little shocked if he doesn't at least show some big-time flashes. Just too much skill and hockey sense and vision not to.

I know it is unrealistic to think of him making the team this year but down the road I just can't wait to see how good this kid is going to be. All indications are that he is a very special player and his skill level is off the charts. I drafted him in his draft year and he is my biggest prize, lol
- flyerdude17

His overall skill set is a little like Kane, but he plays more like a center to me and makes plays in the center of the ice in tighter spaces as opposed to the perimeter. Not the puckhandler with sick hands like Kane is but good enough in traffic and always able to recognize the open guy and make some really sick passes—they don't always look as pretty as they truly are. Just an efficient, smart player who wastes no motion or energy beyond getting the job done. A little like Datsyuk in that regard. Also a very good shooter. And a beautiful 360 degree skater. Needs to get bigger and stronger and play in all three zones. but the offensive potential and hockey sense are off the charts.

Personally, if you send him out with a couple of skill guys, like maybe Sharp and Hossa, I will be a little shocked if he doesn't at least show some big-time flashes. Just too much skill and hockey sense and vision not to.
- John Jaeckel

I know for me, it'll make for at least a bit of a measuring stick. I don't know much about his league and it'll be good to see him against people more of us know something about.

His overall skill set is a little like Kane, but he plays more like a center to me and makes plays in the center of the ice in tighter spaces as opposed to the perimeter. Not the puckhandler with sick hands like Kane is but good enough in traffic and always able to recognize the open guy and make some really sick passes—they don't always look as pretty as they truly are. Just an efficient, smart player who wastes no motion or energy beyond getting the job done. A little like Datsyuk in that regard. Also a very good shooter. And a beautiful 360 degree skater. Needs to get bigger and stronger and play in all three zones. but the offensive potential and hockey sense are off the charts.
- John Jaeckel

Do you think this bodes well for his transition to the smaller ice of North America?

Do you think this bodes well for his transition to the smaller ice of North America?
- mohel

Mmmm, yeah. The transition for him is when big men starting hitting him on smaller ice. Say what you want about Kane, he has a gift for avoiding contact. I also think Teravainen is going add some size. He looks a shade taller than Kane and he seems to have a frame that can add some weight.

There WILL be a smaller ice adjustment for Teravainen but with his mental gifts, it should not take long.

Excuse me? I don't ever recall debating what 2d line center the Hawks should trade the Hammer for. I do how ever recall saying that the faithful here would start missing him by the second month of the season. There were a couple more of us (RickJ comes to mind) who also felt along the same lines. Please stop with all these sweeping "everybody here" statements.
- Beaver-Warrior

My second favorite Hawks player The Hammer spent a few years being skewered here for his bloated (but market comparable) $3.4M salary after the Hawks matched the sheet he signed and now great angst because Crow may have some of the $ that #4 absolutely so richly deserves now on a new deal. It will never end on this board.

At least the overpaid Michael Frolik is gone, much to the dismay of many who suddenly decided he was an integral component of the machine, 11 goals in 136 regular season games be damned.

Next up for abuse is big Jimmy Hayes because he just can't skate. It's coming in a week or 2.