I don't know how anyone can say that a guy who is a perennial 30 + goal scorer and consistently the second leading scorer on the team does "little to nothing to help the team get into the playoffs". I certainly don't see how you can call that same player a "detriment" to the team making the playoffs.

You can't simply discount the value of the points Moulson puts up because you don't like his defense and skating and want to trade him for prospects/picks. The analysis has to be fair. Moulson's points count the same as JT's points do, as Bailey's points do, as KO's points do, etc.

Its a tough call. I like Moulson and would want him to stay put. But, I am opposed to paying him $5M+ per season on a long-term deal because I think there are players in the system that can replace him down the road. But, if this team is in the playoffs or on the cusp of getting in and the best they can do for Moulson in a trade at the deadline is a draft pick, I'm not inclined to trade him simply to be able to say "we got something for an asset". I place a value on getting to the playoffs and competing and don't necessarily have the viewpoint that its not worth getting to the playoffs just to be a bottom seed and get knocked out in the first round.
- Jethro09

OK. Me too. So you're aying you see Moulson as a player that would be a good playoff performer and you'd want him on JT's wing for the next 5 years(probably)?

If Moulson has another 30 year goal season and we let him walk it will be a catastrophe. Yes he has flaws, but at the end of the day behind JT he is the most consistent scorer on the team. Snow should try everything he could to sign him and if he doesn't then we need a new GM.

OK. Me too. So you're aying you see Moulson as a player that would be a good playoff performer and you'd want him on JT's wing for the next 5 years(probably)?
- Cptmjl

As long as Boyes isn't on the other line.

If Moulson has another 30 year goal season and we let him walk it will be a catastrophe. Yes he has flaws, but at the end of the day behind JT he is the most consistent scorer on the team. Snow should try everything he could to sign him and if he doesn't then we need a new GM.
- mighty13duck

I'll ask this question to you since no one else seems to want to answer it. You'd be OK with signing Moulson to a 5 yr 5.5 million dollar contract and having him as your first line winger for the next 5 years?

As long as Boyes isn't on the other line.
- mighty13duck

Moulson in those last 25 games or so was at times worse than Boyes.

Moulson and a 1st was offered to Buffalo for Vanek
Our GM obviously said no

Vanek would prob net 50 playing with Tavares though, so if u guys can work out a deal for him.....

I think Miller should also be a target for you guys though
Nabokov isn't getting u past the 1st round

If Snow has the balls to trade some good enough prospects... Acquiring Miller AND Vanek puts u right up there IMO
But I doubt that happens
- jdfitz77

Vanek and Miller not signed to extensions is not worth trading for. They're both in walk years. I wouldn't trade a 30-goal scorer (albeit, also in a walk year) and a 1st rounder for Vanek in a walk year. I certainly wouldn't trade valueable prospects for Miller in a walk year in his mid 30's who has openly said he would like to move west. Just not a fit.

I'll ask this question to you since no one else seems to want to answer it. You'd be OK with signing Moulson to a 5 yr 5.5 million dollar contract and having him as your first line winger for the next 5 years?
- Cptmjl

No but I don't think he will be demanding that.

No but I don't think he will be demanding that.
- mighty13duck

This is his one chance at a pay day. I know everyone on here thinks they know who Moulson is but if he hits FA(which if him and his agent have half a brain he will) and gets offered somewhere in that ballpark(which he prob will judging what other players like Clowe and Clarkson got)you can bet he's taking it. Friends with JT or not.

This is his one chance at a pay day. I know everyone on here thinks they know who Moulson is but if he hits FA and gets offered somewhere in that ballpark(which he prob will judging what other players like Clowe and Clarkson got)you can bet he's taking it. Friends with JT or not.
- Cptmjl

But who is going to offer him that? Devils maybe but that's about it. Only team I can see him going to is LA but they don't have the space for him

But who is going to offer him that? Devils maybe but that's about it. Only team I can see him going to is LA but they don't have the space for him
- mighty13duck

FA is almost a year away. Some team will need him by July of next year.

I'll ask this question to you since no one else seems to want to answer it. You'd be OK with signing Moulson to a 5 yr 5.5 million dollar contract and having him as your first line winger for the next 5 years?
- Cptmjl

I think that's where folks are having a problem with the weight of the conversation. This isn't a question of 'do you want Moulson here for 2013?'. It's more of a 'are you comfortable with having Moulson on your top line for the next 5 years?'. That's a big difference. Moulson has consistently put up 30 goals but let's not pretend as though he's done it on his own. He's playing with one of the top 3-4 players in hockey. By all right, ANYONE should be popping 30 on his wing. A few upper teir players, as mentioned earlier, would likely flirt with 40-50 goals there. Especially if asked to stand in front of the net all three periods and bang home rebounds all night without ever back checking, digging in corners, carrying the puck etc. It's like signing a goal line runningback to top running back money for 5 years because he put up double digit td's. Sure, he can get in, but he can't do anything else.

IF we sign Moulson for 5 years, folks should be prepared to see him struggle in a second line role in another 2-3 years with 15-20 goals at best while sporting an awful +/-. That's what a big investment in Moulson will bring. The only way I see that not being the case is if we manage to put a big two way power forward with excellent puck skills on the other wing.

Xxkeaner17xX

Xxkeaner17xX

But who is going to offer him that? Devils maybe but that's about it. Only team I can see him going to is LA but they don't have the space for him
- mighty13duck

It's a tough question to answer. He's got a lot of friends around the league and he's a popular character. I think there would be a few teams willing to overpay if they feel he's capable of doing it all on his own.
Truth be told, I'm not sure how many teams will feel Moulson can score 30 without JT. I know I don't think he can.


xxkeaner17xx

OK. Me too. So you're aying you see Moulson as a player that would be a good playoff performer and you'd want him on JT's wing for the next 5 years(probably)?
- Cptmjl

I wouldn't mind him being on the team for the next five years, not necessarily on JT's wing, provided it comes at the right price. To me, Moulson isn't a $5M + per year player. I wouldn't pay him that. I also think Moulson CAN be a good playoff player. One poor 6 game sample size doesn't mean he can't perform in the playoffs. As the playoffs showed us, there's nothing set in stone saying that Moulson MUST be on JT's wing.

I think we're getting off track here. The original question was if Moulson, playing this season on JT's wing (presumably) is having a typical Moulson regular season and the team is on the cusp of or in playoff position, would you trade him at the deadline for a pick if he's not signed to an extension? My answer is "no I wouldn't". If the question is would I have traded Moulson this off season for assets, my answer would be "Maybe, depending on the package coming the other way". I'm not married to the guy, but I don't think you throw away a 30-goal scorer for a pick or prospect when you're competing for a playoff spot just to say "we got something for him before we lost him" to UFA.

LIke I posted earlier, its a complicated situation. On one hand, the guy produces and has been the second leading scorer on this team since JT got here. On the other hand, I know the "market" is going to skew his value to Clarkson-level salary based on Moulson's numbers and no, I don't think Moulson is worth that money. I think if you were going to trade Moulson, the time was this summer where you could address the subtraction of offense and likely get better value for him than you will at the deadline.

Moulson in those last 25 games or so was at times worse than Boyes.
- Cptmjl

correct

I can when he does absolutely nothing else and he's not scoring. He doesn't hit in fact he avoids contact like every opposing player has the bubonic plague. He doesn't back check in any sense. How many times last season did we ALL see him just give up on a play that lead to an opposing team scoring opportunity? If he's not scoring he's worthless. He wasn't scoring leading up to the PO's which was the point of my post. I don't think Moulson helped getting us into the PO's down the stretch but in fact was a "detriment" to the very cause bcs of his one dimensional game and him not scoring. He was hard to watch which just about every poster on this thread was b!tching about and screaming to dump him. How soon everyone forgets. Of course his points count and are very important but when they're not coming what purpose does he serve(referring to leading up to the PO's which you guys keep bringing up, that we couldn't have done it without him which to me isn't true)? Also, if those points are coming from other areas we weren't getting them from bfr he becomes expendable.
Example, what if Strome or Nelson or both put up 40-50 points each or more for that matter? Clutterbuck puts up 10 to 15 points more than Acoin? PMB adds 40-50 points? What purpose does Moulson serve at that point at(I'm guessing)5 years at 5.5(which he's getting unless he has a disastorous season)? He's not worth that with his deficiencies and if you think he is we will just agree to disagree i can't keep writing the same shat over and over again it gets tiring after a while.
- Cptmjl

A lot of hypotheticals there, but I agree with you that Moulson isn't worth 5 yrs, $5.5M per. If I had to be pinned down to it, 3 years, $12M-$12.6M would be my best offer for Moulson.

Moulson will be offered a contract that Garth feels is fair. If he doesn't sign he will be moved. There is ZERO shot he is getting more than JT. JT grew up with the guy and loves the guy and that does matter (also why they traded for Cal and Drafted Strome..no?). Anyway.. I bet he gets a 3 or 4 year offer at 4.5 ish a year and if he passes... he gets traded.

Dan great stuff....thanks.

A lot of hypotheticals there, but I agree with you that Moulson isn't worth 5 yrs, $5.5M per. If I had to be pinned down to it, 3 years, $12M-$12.6M would be my best offer for Moulson.
- Jethro09

And I wouldn't disagree with that figure. Problem is, I'm not so sure that will get it done. Maybe I'm wrong, but if I'm Matt's agent, I'm probably telling him, 'cut off talks until the end of the season, then see what the market looks like". He's going to play with JT all season, so they'll be willing to risk his contract year. So then the question becomes, will anyone outbid that contract. Based on the overspending we've seen this year, I'd bet someone offers more. PA got 4 years @ $16 million. So I don't think it would be far-fetched to see Moulson get offered the same. That's where things get difficult.
Xxkeaner17xX

I think that's where folks are having a problem with the weight of the conversation. This isn't a question of 'do you want Moulson here for 2013?'. It's more of a 'are you comfortable with having Moulson on your top line for the next 5 years?'. That's a big difference. Moulson has consistently put up 30 goals but let's not pretend as though he's done it on his own. He's playing with one of the top 3-4 players in hockey. By all right, ANYONE should be popping 30 on his wing. A few upper teir players, as mentioned earlier, would likely flirt with 40-50 goals there. Especially if asked to stand in front of the net all three periods and bang home rebounds all night without ever back checking, digging in corners, carrying the puck etc. It's like signing a goal line runningback to top running back money for 5 years because he put up double digit td's. Sure, he can get in, but he can't do anything else.

IF we sign Moulson for 5 years, folks should be prepared to see him struggle in a second line role in another 2-3 years with 15-20 goals at best while sporting an awful +/-. That's what a big investment in Moulson will bring. The only way I see that not being the case is if we manage to put a big two way power forward with excellent puck skills on the other wing.

Xxkeaner17xX

Xxkeaner17xX
- keaner17

Well then they haven to face reality bcs thats what he is getting. That is why I have the opinion I do.

A lot of hypotheticals there, but I agree with you that Moulson isn't worth 5 yrs, $5.5M per. If I had to be pinned down to it, 3 years, $12M-$12.6M would be my best offer for Moulson.
- Jethro09

We are a team of hypotheticals from our defense to our goaltending to our first line where Moulson didn't play the last 25 games or the playoffs. As far as your contract offer goes I'd do it if he performed well this year. The problem is unless him and his agent are mentally insufficient he's going to get more money and more years. If he's taking that contract from us he had a bad season and none of us are going to be wanting him on the team at that point.

I wouldn't mind him being on the team for the next five years, not necessarily on JT's wing, provided it comes at the right price. To me, Moulson isn't a $5M + per year player. I wouldn't pay him that. I also think Moulson CAN be a good playoff player. One poor 6 game sample size doesn't mean he can't perform in the playoffs. As the playoffs showed us, there's nothing set in stone saying that Moulson MUST be on JT's wing.

I think we're getting off track here. The original question was if Moulson, playing this season on JT's wing (presumably) is having a typical Moulson regular season and the team is on the cusp of or in playoff position, would you trade him at the deadline for a pick if he's not signed to an extension? My answer is "no I wouldn't". If the question is would I have traded Moulson this off season for assets, my answer would be "Maybe, depending on the package coming the other way". I'm not married to the guy, but I don't think you throw away a 30-goal scorer for a pick or prospect when you're competing for a playoff spot just to say "we got something for him before we lost him" to UFA.

LIke I posted earlier, its a complicated situation. On one hand, the guy produces and has been the second leading scorer on this team since JT got here. On the other hand, I know the "market" is going to skew his value to Clarkson-level salary based on Moulson's numbers and no, I don't think Moulson is worth that money. I think if you were going to trade Moulson, the time was this summer where you could address the subtraction of offense and likely get better value for him than you will at the deadline.
- Jethro09

It is. Believe me I don't so much disagree with anything that you're saying as much as I'm leaning a little bit more one way than you. I'd just hate to see him walk for nothing if he's giving us what he gave us the second half of last season.

A lot of hypotheticals there, but I agree with you that Moulson isn't worth 5 yrs, $5.5M per. If I had to be pinned down to it, 3 years, $12M-$12.6M would be my best offer for Moulson.
- Jethro09

I would be perfectly fine with that for him. Short term and not too highly priced that it won't hurt to bury him in the lineup when he stops showing up again.

And I wouldn't disagree with that figure. Problem is, I'm not so sure that will get it done. Maybe I'm wrong, but if I'm Matt's agent, I'm probably telling him, 'cut off talks until the end of the season, then see what the market looks like". He's going to play with JT all season, so they'll be willing to risk his contract year. So then the question becomes, will anyone outbid that contract. Based on the overspending we've seen this year, I'd bet someone offers more. PA got 4 years @ $16 million. So I don't think it would be far-fetched to see Moulson get offered the same. That's where things get difficult.
Xxkeaner17xX
- keaner17

He will get more than that unless he has a terrible season.

I believe MAtt Moulson will be here for life. I don't mind if he is here. this year he needs to have a great season though and I am confident he will be back to himself. I also thought last year he was playing through some injuries so he should be 100%

I wouldn't mind him being on the team for the next five years, not necessarily on JT's wing, provided it comes at the right price. To me, Moulson isn't a $5M + per year player. I wouldn't pay him that. I also think Moulson CAN be a good playoff player. One poor 6 game sample size doesn't mean he can't perform in the playoffs. As the playoffs showed us, there's nothing set in stone saying that Moulson MUST be on JT's wing.

I think we're getting off track here. The original question was if Moulson, playing this season on JT's wing (presumably) is having a typical Moulson regular season and the team is on the cusp of or in playoff position, would you trade him at the deadline for a pick if he's not signed to an extension? My answer is "no I wouldn't". If the question is would I have traded Moulson this off season for assets, my answer would be "Maybe, depending on the package coming the other way". I'm not married to the guy, but I don't think you throw away a 30-goal scorer for a pick or prospect when you're competing for a playoff spot just to say "we got something for him before we lost him" to UFA.

LIke I posted earlier, its a complicated situation. On one hand, the guy produces and has been the second leading scorer on this team since JT got here. On the other hand, I know the "market" is going to skew his value to Clarkson-level salary based on Moulson's numbers and no, I don't think Moulson is worth that money. I think if you were going to trade Moulson, the time was this summer where you could address the subtraction of offense and likely get better value for him than you will at the deadline.
- Jethro09

That was exactly the question asked and like usual it goes off in another direction

... The original question was if Moulson, playing this season on JT's wing (presumably) is having a typical Moulson regular season and the team is on the cusp of or in playoff position, would you trade him at the deadline for a pick if he's not signed to an extension? ...
- Jethro09

Yes. If he doesn't sign an extension then he's probably asking for too much. Take what you can get for him. Moulson will get some GM to over pay him in the off season. The Isles will at least get something in return. Win/win.