Stamkos "all-around" game is very underrated and frankly overshadowed by his goal scoring. I'm not saying he is on the level of Toew's but he is a hard worker across all 200 feet of ice surface. Maybe I'm being homerish by taking Stammer but I don't see how you can pass on a scorer like him if building a team.

Also, not taking Toew's accomplishments away from him but he doesn't win 2 cups without the supporting cast he has around him. Stammer hasn't had 1/2 the team that Toew's has had most if not all of his career so taking into account Toew's "accomplishments" is the incorrect way of looking at this dilemma. Which is the better player is the question and to me the answer is Stamkos
- uf1910

Not a strong argument. No one wins two Cups without a great overall team. Not even Gretzky or Orr.

And there is an argument that Toews made all those guys better. If you want me to quote Babcock again, I will.

Not a strong argument. No one wins two Cups without a great overall team. Not even Gretzky or Orr.

And there is an argument that Toews made all those guys better. If you want me to quote Babcock again, I will.
- John Jaeckel

I've got this...

"Canada Hockey viewed Jonathan Toews as a 13th forward, possibly centering the fourth line of forwards coming into the Games. However, Toews was named the tournament's most outstanding forward and was praised by Canada, and Detroit, head coach Mike Babcock. Babcock was asked during the Games who his best forward was, and he responded by simply saying whomever "is playing with Jonathan Toews"

STamkos. Trade places with the players and TBL still misses the playoffs and Chicago still wins the cup. Chi is a great team with or without Toews. Stamkos is the better player and its not as close as some think
- mighty13duck

This is highly debatable. For a stretch of a few games, sure. Over time, no.

Name them.
- Ogilthorpe2

Why bother, I'm sure you'll find reasons to disagree with them all.

Toews is overated anyway so it doesn't matter.

Not a strong argument. No one wins two Cups without a great overall team. Not even Gretzky or Orr.

And there is an argument that Toews made all those guys better. If you want me to quote Babcock again, I will.
- John Jaeckel

is your avatar a selfie?

i think we all would like to know

"Canada Hockey viewed Jonathan Toews as a 13th forward, possibly centering the fourth line of forwards coming into the Games. However, Toews was named the tournament's most outstanding forward and was praised by Canada, and Detroit, head coach Mike Babcock. Babcock was asked during the Games who his best forward was, and he responded by simply saying whomever "is playing with Jonathan"
- Ogilthorpe2

Which is why the whole "he had a great supporting cast," "leadership is secondary," "goals/points are everything" arguments are weak.

Toews has won at EVERY level: WJC's, Olympics, NHL. Why? He's a winner and premier player with intangibles off the charts. Stamkos is a good overall player and a great scorer. but Toews has the skins on the wall—again at every level of hockey—for a reason.

is your avatar a selfie?

i think we all would like to know
- Crimsoninja

I can neither confirm nor deny. LOL

1) Why bother, I'm sure you'll find reasons to disagree with them all.

2) Toews is overated anyway so it doesn't matter.
- sambarugh

1) This is the internet equivalent of taking your ball and going home. Come on, name them. Let's talk about it.

2) How so? Please provide facts.

is your avatar a selfie?

i think we all would like to know
- Crimsoninja

i hate that word, its one of the many reasons other countries hate us haha

i hate that word, its one of the many reasons other countries hate us haha
- BlazinMike

it was a funny post, nailed me on that, regardless.

Stanley Cup Argument -- Colin Fraser >>> Steven Stamkos

Stanley Cup Argument -- Colin Fraser >>> Steven Stamkos
- laughs2907

Yeah, the problem with that is it's devoid of context and therefore not a remotely valid argument. But keep trying.

I've got this...

"Canada Hockey viewed Jonathan Toews as a 13th forward, possibly centering the fourth line of forwards coming into the Games. However, Toews was named the tournament's most outstanding forward and was praised by Canada, and Detroit, head coach Mike Babcock. Babcock was asked during the Games who his best forward was, and he responded by simply saying whomever "is playing with Jonathan Toews"
- Ogilthorpe2

I think the quote was when he was asked what his best line is, he answered whichever one Toews is on. I could be wrong though.

I think the quote was when he was asked what his best line is, he answered whichever one Toews is on. I could be wrong though.
- Elbows15

Pretty sure it was who has your best forward been, the reporter thinking he was teeing up the inevitable jump in Sidney's lap, and he got 'whoever's playing with Toews." Something pretty close to that.

Why bother, I'm sure you'll find reasons to disagree with them all.

Toews is overated anyway so it doesn't matter.
- sambarugh

Here, I will start for you. Bergeron. Your turn.

Stanley Cup Argument -- Colin Fraser >>> Steven Stamkos
- laughs2907

Only if you think Colin Fraser has ever been the best player on an NHL roster. Crosby, Toews, Bergeron, Datsyuk, all more viable arguments.

Toews'

-World Juniors Championship
-Conn Smythe, Selke
-2 Cups
- philco28

Don't forget Olympic Gold and voted Best Forward also at 2010 Olympics.

Here, I will start for you. Bergeron. Your turn.
- Elbows15

Close ....

Yeah, the problem with that is it's devoid of context and therefore not a remotely valid argument. But keep trying.
- John Jaeckel

We'll have to agree to disagree on the "Stanley Cup Argument"... Switch Stamkos with Toews, and I bet the results would have been the same. No way Tamp wins the cup, and a very good chance Chicago wins the cup.

I'm saying this and the Hawks are my second favorite team. Just being realistic.

Yeah, the problem with that is it's devoid of context and therefore not a remotely valid argument. But keep trying.
- John Jaeckel

Don't know about about you JJ, but I got a good chuckle out of it.

1) This is the internet equivalent of taking your ball and going home. Come on, name them. Let's talk about it.

2) How so? Please provide facts.
- John Jaeckel

1. No, it's just knowing how the Interwebs work and you can tell by the response that obviously the individual already diagrees with the statement. Therefore that opinion won't change.

2. Just my opinion. I know a lot of people like getting all high on him. Personally speaking he doesn't do anything that I would call captain worthy.

Here, I will start for you. Bergeron. Your turn.
- Elbows15

I'll take it further:

Bergeron
Datsyuk
Kesler
Richards

Only one of those guys has done what Toews has: Datsyuk, and he is a generational player, as is Toews, generational meaning a guy who only comes along once every 10-20 years as far as his type of player and ability in that role.

Only if you think Colin Fraser has ever been the best player on an NHL roster. Crosby, Toews, Bergeron, Datsyuk, all more viable arguments.
- Ogilthorpe2

OK... Kopitar >>> Ovechkin

I'll take it further:

Bergeron
Datsyuk
Kesler
Richards

Only one of those guys has done what Toews has: Datsyuk, and he is a generational player, as is Toews, generational meaning a guy who only comes along once every 10-20 years as far as his type of player and ability in that role.
- John Jaeckel

False, Tavares and Crosby have both been drafted in that ten year span with similar roles and intangibles

1. No, it's just knowing how the Interwebs work and you can tell by the response that obviously the individual already diagrees with the statement. Therefore that opinion won't change.

2. Just my opinion. I know a lot of people like 1) getting all high on him. 2) Personally speaking he doesn't do anything that I would call captain worthy.
- sambarugh

Sorry dude, but really?!

1) "getting"?!
2) You aren't serious? Are you going by some kind of stupid, over the top filler by the NBC team in a few playoff games (on the way to his second Cup in 4 years)? Because aside from showing a little too much passion/frustration in that instance, ALL THE GUY DOES is captain worthy.