So he is alright at a few things. Getting better at a few things. Great at scoring.

Uhm ok.

Once again, Toews excels at every aspect of the game. STAMKOS, unfortunately does not. This isn't an opinion, Lightning fans say the same thing.
- robhawks

No he doesn't ... Temper tantrums In penalties boxes is a horrible form of leadership and a terrible asset to excel at . Stamkos is younger and has more skill lol

This is Eklund trolling blog ... Making up for the loss of cloutier and has to create entertainment like this now

No he doesn't ... Temper tantrums In penalties boxes is a horrible form of leadership and a terrible asset to excel at . Stamkos is younger and has more skill lol
- RileyB77

Yea if a tantrum is thrown in the box by a captain in elimination games that is not desperate measures that is just immature and due to his youth ... You're a leader for a reason.. You lead and others follow... He was leading , but good thing his defence man came and shut him down and didn't decide to follow

Good thing nobody on the team he captained to two cups followed their captains decisions or they would of never made it to the cup

You could make the same argument for them both except 1 plays better d and one plays better o ... But of course I'm biased with everything said above .. I love toews I just love stamkos more lol

Since the question is framed as who you'd start a team with, this starts and ends with Toews. And since we're taking both players complete resume's into account, it doesn't take much to realize Toews is the clear leader. Offensive stats are only a portion of the argument. As Jamal Mayers put it shortly after the win in Boston June 24th, "he [Toews] willed the team to win".

Only the second player in NHL history to win 2 Stanley Cups as a captain at age 25 or under. The other? Wayne Gretzky. While Toews can't match Gretzky's offensive numbers ever, he is at a minimum in the discussion as best captain in the games' history at such a young age. And a captain by definition is the team leader, a guy whom you would start a team with; and that is Jonathon Toews.

You can build your team around Pavel Bure, or you can build your team around Steve Yzerman. Frankly, the Yzermans win cups. The Bures don't (barring they pull a Robitaille/Hull last ditch run). You see teams trying to build around these types again and again, but the formula is no good. Bure was a great player and a hella fun to watch, but I've got to go with Yzerman.

(So, in the same spirit, I am going with Toews because Stamkos isn't the type you build your team around.)
- Craola

This is said perfectly. And yes, I'm a homer, but I try to comment as a fan of the game rather than my team. Selke type centers are who you build your team around. Bergeron, Toews, Yzerman types... agree. No knock on Stamkos. He is incredible, and certainly can win cups, it's just your foundational pieces need to be a Two way contributor at center, and a core Defenseman.

You can build your team around Pavel Bure, or you can build your team around Steve Yzerman. Frankly, the Yzermans win cups. The Bures don't (barring they pull a Robitaille/Hull last ditch run). You see teams trying to build around these types again and again, but the formula is no good. Bure was a great player and a hella fun to watch, but I've got to go with Yzerman.

(So, in the same spirit, I am going with Toews because Stamkos isn't the type you build your team around.)
- Craola

Wait, you can't build around Stamkos? You must be kidding me

Wait, you can't build around Stamkos? You must be kidding me
- sbroads24

I'm sure you can. That isn't the question. The question is who do you choose to build that team.

Wait, you can't build around Stamkos? You must be kidding me
- sbroads24

of course you can. the point in the comment you highlight is that winning cups tends to correlate with building around 2 way standouts, rather than offensive standouts. He even said you could build around offensive standouts like Bure, but his contention is that two way cornerstones tend more often to produce cups.

of course you can. the point in the comment you highlight is that winning cups tends to correlate with building around 2 way standouts, rather than offensive standouts. He even said you could build around offensive standouts like Bure, but his contention is that two way cornerstones tend more often to produce cups.
- DirkGraham

Don't worry DG. I've been trying to have people understand for a while.

Obviously, scoring a goal is the only way to win.

Don't worry DG. I've been trying to have people understand for a while.

Obviously, scoring a goal is the only way to win.
- robhawks

The only thing you have helped people understand is how to be a homer.

of course you can. the point in the comment you highlight is that winning cups tends to correlate with building around 2 way standouts, rather than offensive standouts. He even said you could build around offensive standouts like Bure, but his contention is that two way cornerstones tend more often to produce cups.
- DirkGraham

Sure. 2 way standouts that also happen to have Norris trophy defensemen on their rosters as well

Bergeron- Chara
Toews - Keith
Datsyuk - Lidstrom

If Stamkos is on CHI they still win the cup.
So answer me this. Since you should build around 2 way centers you would have taken Sean Monahan number 1 overall over Mackinnon then right?

The only thing you have helped people understand is how to be a homer.
- sbroads24

How? Can you honestly tell me Toews doesn't excel at every aspect in hockey?

Examples)

Offence
Defence
Faceoffs
Plus/minus
Leadership
PP
PK
Making those around him better


By the way, nobody has answered my question from yesterday yet......

Name me something Toews isn't good at?

How? Can you honestly tell me Toews doesn't excel at every aspect in hockey?

Examples)

Offence
Defence
Faceoffs
Plus/minus
Leadership
PP
PK
Making those around him better


By the way, nobody has answered my question from yesterday yet......

Name me something Toews isn't good at?
- robhawks

No one said he is not a complete player. IMO he is maybe the 6-8 best player in the game. But IMO Stamkos is top 3

No one said he is not a complete player. IMO he is maybe the 6-8 best player in the game. But IMO Stamkos is top 3
- sbroads24

Why is Stamkos Top 3?

I've explained why Toews is. If its point production and goals, sure Stamkos is. Stamkos gets every single chance at offence. Toews gets out on the ice for every situation and he sacrifices offence for d-zone draws, PK, 3 zone play, he always back checks to make sure he doesn't get scored on. Players like Toews won't score 50 goals because he "can't" but because he does everything.


People don't seem to understand that Toews offence is pretty darn good. If he concentrated only on offence, Toews playing with Kane scores 50
Goals a year.

Toews is a top 10 NHL player. IMO Stamkos is top 3. What I meant was its tougher to find a franchise goal scorer like Stamkos. They usually are generational talents. If I were building a team and could choose 1 player, I would take Stamkos and then focus on getting a Mike Richards type player to play the tough minutes Toews plays. Either way you really can't go wrong with either player
- sbroads24

Pretty sure you have that backwards.

Why is Stamkos Top 3?

I've explained why Toews is. If its point production and goals, sure Stamkos is. Stamkos gets every single chance at offence. Toews gets out on the ice for every situation and he sacrifices offence for d-zone draws, PK, 3 zone play, he always back checks to make sure he doesn't get scored on. Players like Toews won't score 50 goals because he "can't" but because he does everything.


People don't seem to understand that Toews offence is pretty darn good. If he concentrated only on offence, Toews playing with Kane scores 50
Goals a year.
- robhawks

What you said is an assumption. I could say Stamkos playing a full season away from Boucher and his 1-3-1 no forecheck style of defense he would score 75.
You still didn't answer my question. If a great 2 way center is more important to build around that elite scoring than you should of had Sean Monahan as your nber 1 pick right? You would have taken him over Mackinnon?

This just in: a guy who has over 200 goals and almost 400 points by the age of 23 is one of the top 3 players in the league

This just in: a guy who has over 200 goals and almost 400 points by the age of 23 is one of the top 3 players in the league
- sbroads24

For point production, I agree.

For point production, I agree.
- robhawks

Are you gonna answer the question?

This just in: a guy who has over 200 goals and almost 400 points by the age of 23 is one of the top 3 players in the league
- sbroads24

I've been around hockey for a long time. Played, coached, watched.

I understand your point, Stamkos more points equals better player. That's basically the only thing the people who pick Stamkos can say really. The people who pick Toews understand intangibles. I'm not gonna get into what it takes to be a complete player and what it takes to win (again, I've been explaining it for a while).

Like someone said earlier, their point totals for time on ice is actually equal. So if that's the case, and their offence is equal. Who us te better player. I would think the one with the excellent intangibles. The one Babcock is gonna put on the ice when the chips are down, in a pressure situation to win.


MacKinnon also has intangibles.

Answer my question please:

Name me something Toews doesn't excel at? I can name quite a few for Stamkos.

I've been around hockey for a long time. Played, coached, watched.

I understand your point, Stamkos more points equals better player. That's basically the only thing the people who pick Stamkos can say really. The people who pick Toews understand intangibles. I'm not gonna get into what it takes to be a complete player and what it takes to win (again, I've been explaining it for a while).

Like someone said earlier, their point totals for time on ice is actually equal. So if that's the case, and their offence is equal. Who us te better player. I would think the one with the excellent intangibles. The one Babcock is gonna put on the ice when the chips are down, in a pressure situation to win.


MacKinnon also has intangibles.

Answer my question please:

Name me something Toews doesn't excel at? I can name quite a few for Stamkos.
- robhawks

You are missing my point as well. An elite goal scorer like Stamkos is not easy to find.
If you are building a team, you can fill the void that Stamkos leaves you by having a center that can play the tough defensive, PK minutes . Like you said because of this Toews offensive production is held back a bit. However you can't just find goal scorers like Stamkos, you draft them number 1 overall.

I said this last night, if I am building a team, I take the elite goal scorer and try and find another center to play my tough defensive minutes.

You are missing my point as well. An elite goal scorer like Stamkos is not easy to find.
If you are building a team, you can fill the void that Stamkos leaves you by having a center that can play the tough defensive, PK minutes . Like you said because of this Toews offensive production is held back a bit. However you can't just find goal scorers like Stamkos, you draft them number 1 overall.

I said this last night, if I am building a team, I take the elite goal scorer and try and find another center to play my tough defensive minutes.
- sbroads24

I do understand. But are you actually saying there aren't elite goal scorers other than Stamkos. Sure there are, works both ways.

Just about every team has both elite scorers and 2 way players.


To me, I think Toews scores 50 if he concentrates only on that. Stamkos probably won't be a leader in plus/minus, a Faceoff specialist, a PK specialist, 3 zone play specialist.

It's easier to do one thing well versus a bunch of things well. That's just common sense.

Oh by the way, nobody has answered my question yet. .........

Name me something Toews doesn't do well?

I do understand. But are you actually saying there aren't elite goal scorers other than Stamkos. Sure there are, works both ways.

Just about every team has both elite scorers and 2 way players.


To me, I think Toews scores 50 if he concentrates only on that. Stamkos probably won't be a leader in plus/minus, a Faceoff specialist, a PK specialist, 3 zone play specialist.

It's easier to do one thing well versus a bunch of things well. That's just common sense.
- robhawks

It's also common sense that its easier to develope a sound defensive game and get better on the dot like Stamkos will than it is to develope the ability to score 50-60 goals in a season. No offense but "intangibles" can be developed over time, natural goal scoring ability cannot. And yes I realize Toews can score his fair share

Wait, are you saying Hall and JT are on the same level?
- abware

I've always said this lol
regardless that i think JT is only ever so slightly marginally better, they are the same level ,

Below Crosby and Stamkos, but Superstars