well the argument i pose to that is that he was the only mainstay through all those teams so I could argue that it was him making everyone else better.

Orr was good.. but he was all offense.. he wouldnt be able to do what he did back then today at all. whereas lidstrom's competition was far more difficult in all aspects.

also, lidstrom was the first euro captain to win a cup no?

i consider Orr to be the best offensive d-man of all time, but for the best all around d-man.. i'm going with lidstrom all the way
- Dozzer

Orr would hit, fight, score, and play a solid D game. thats the difference, lidstrom could only play a good D game. hes a wussy.

lidstrom is top 3, thats the best i can give him!

dont worry Bruce, this doesnt change my for you lol

I remember an All Star Game a few years back. The score was like 14-12 but Lidstrom was a +7.
- PatC80

i think we won 7-1 2 years ago, and Lebda was -1

Orr would hit, fight, score, and play a solid D game. thats the difference, lidstrom could only play a good D game. hes a wussy.

lidstrom is top 3, thats the best i can give him!

dont worry Bruce, this doesnt change my for you lol
- big_dion

and yes, lidstrom played vs better players, but he also had better training, equipment, ice surface, and a knee that wasnt broken in his prime.

too many aspects to give a fair comparison IMO.

Orr would hit, fight, score, and play a solid D game. thats the difference, lidstrom could only play a good D game. hes a wussy.

lidstrom is top 3, thats the best i can give him!

dont worry Bruce, this doesnt change my for you lol
- big_dion

right back at ya

disagree with the bolded tho, all he would do is scoop up a rebound and skate it out of trouble.. and there was always lanes because no one knew how to defend against a rushing d-man

and i would call lidstrom cerebral over wussy lol

i think we won 7-1 2 years ago, and Lebda was -1
- big_dion

oh well lebda is a special player

where is he now?

right back at ya

disagree with the bolded tho, all he would do is scoop up a rebound and skate it out of trouble.. and there was always lanes because no one knew how to defend against a rushing d-man

and i would call lidstrom cerebral over wussy lol
- Dozzer

true, but thats a huge asset to have on D! thats what we missed the last 2 years, and thats why gardiner is awesome, cause he just carries the puck out! cmon bruce admit thats a nice talent to have - you dont need a long outlet pass, you just take it out.

haha ok ok, cerebral~! but he wasnt one to lay a big hit or beat guys up infront of the net. i know u know what i mean, and it was with a P not a W, stupid filter

anyhow, lidstrom is the best straight D man to play the game since ive watched, il admit that.

oh well lebda is a special player

where is he now?
- Dozzer

good question! nashville maybe?

all i know is Franson was a steal!

i miss burke, he made poop happen.

good question! nashville maybe?

all i know is Franson was a steal!

i miss burke, he made poop happen.
- big_dion

he's in the AHL

he's in the AHL
- Dozzer

a good spot for him

a good spot for him
- big_dion

he's still shootin over his head imo

You would rather leafs give in and pay him 5-6m+??
- IrishRage

Now you're just being equally silly but on the opposite end of the spectrum.

Bozak "fits better"

http://www.thescore.com/n...et-big-money-or-long-term

Of the twelve skaters whom Grabovski has spent more than 400 minutes skating alongside at even-strength since 2008, all twelve fared better by both goal and shot attempt differential with Grabovski than they did without him.

he's still shootin over his head imo
- Dozzer

Funny how players like Lebda come along.
Like Finger, Komisarek to a degree, Connolly. You watch them and immediately say WTF! Connolly to me was a revelation, a marvel. I found myself focusing on him and I was amazed with wonderment - almost in awe of his uncaring approach and ineptitude, thinking "Wow...Is that it? Can't be! Is this the Connolly that played for Buffalo - has to be a different guy...maybe the Leafs were thinking of a different Connolly? How could this happen?"
With Finger, it took two shifts to think - We got hosed!

Bozak "fits better"

http://www.thescore.com/n...et-big-money-or-long-term
- senstroll

That's what Phil said...

Top 10 Defensive D-men of all time.

Stevens
Langway
Horton
Orr
Harvey
Serge Savard
Lidstrom
McCrimmon
Seibert
Butch Bouchard

Grabovski is getting a lot blog time.
Vancouver -
Ottawa -
Washington -
New Jersey -

Washington is my guess.

Former #Leafs GM Brian Burke (@Burkie2020) has been appointed to Rugby Canada's Board of Directors.

Glenn Frey in 70's

That's what Phil said...
- Woderwick

Top 10 Defensive D-men of all time.

Stevens
Langway
Horton
Orr
Harvey
Serge Savard
Lidstrom
McCrimmon
Seibert
Butch Bouchard
- BingoLady

im with you, i think stevens is the best.

simply because nobody, and i mean nobody wanted to play vs him.

cant say the same for any other D man.

he would end your career.

he's still shootin over his head imo
- Dozzer

men's league seems like a better fit

Glenn Frey in 70's
- BingoLady

I went to an eagles concert a few weeks ago... he said he was a Detroit fan

I went to an eagles concert a few weeks ago... he said he was a Detroit fan

- senstroll

just trying to get them out of bankruptcy im sure

men's league seems like a better fit
- big_dion

i was thinking about indoor ball hockey at the Ailsa Craig Community Centre..

he'd still get picked last

i was thinking about indoor ball hockey at the Ailsa Craig Community Centre..

he'd still get picked last
- Dozzer

i dunno where that is, but id imagine its near you in London

id know more about it if i wasnt out of my mind for those 3 years