I know that. But which team was he a better coach with.
- IanEsplen

Detroit. They've been unbelievably consistent. They've won a cup and had great regular season after great regular season. He's transitioned from one core group to another. He's developed young players well. He's implemented a style that is not only entertaining, but also provides a chance for them to win regularly. He coaches high tempo, possession and pressure hockey. He hasn't resorted to just locking down defensively and praying they can win a tight game or win in OT or a shootout.

In Anaheim they made the cup finals because the Michelin man in net was unbeatable. When he took his mask off you couldn't even see his head cause it was hidden under all his shoulder pads. Babcock did a great job, but his body of work in Detroit has been phenomenal. Great goalies make coaches look real good. How many Jack Adams trophies were won simply because the goalie for that team stood on his head for a year?

Why all the hartley hate? At least in relation to torts who seems to widely considered as undoubtedly the better coach.

Im not even sayin he's great, but he's won a championship at every level he's coached.
Junior, ahl, nhl and even won one in europe recently.
Neither did he do a brutal job last year with what was certainly a brutal team in calgary.

Just seems like contagious diffusion is kinda the name of the game in the hockey world without alot of facts to back the original thought up.
- hugefemale dog77

I'm not a Hartley fan. That Avalanche team he won the cup with was absolutely stacked. He's by no means the worst coach in hockey, but there are a lot of good coaches in this division. I consider him to be below average in terms of current NHL coaches.

"the sedins are soft as butter"
"the canucks are done and about to start sliding way down"
"oilers have major goaltending problems"
"Tavares is god and so much better than some of his comparable counterparts"

etc etc etc etc etc etc

none of these statements are even close to true, so how have they become fact in our collective conscience??
(outside of home team fans anyway)

I'm not a Hartley fan. That Avalanche team he won the cup with was absolutely stacked. He's by no means the worst coach in hockey, but there are a lot of good coaches in this division. I consider him to be below average in terms of current NHL coaches.
- KB3Point0

torts team was pretty stacked too. doesn't seem to be used as a mark against his ring.
he had an absolutely stacked team last year and was a cup favourite. huge underachievement.

im not a Hartley fan per se either, but he coached some pretty terrible teams as well and those lean years to seem to have him written off in terms of this discussion. regardless of obvious success as a coach.

"the sedins are soft as butter"
"the canucks are done and about to start sliding way down"
"oilers have major goaltending problems"
"Tavares is god and so much better than some of his comparable counterparts"

etc etc etc etc etc etc

none of these statements are even close to true, so how have they become fact in our collective conscience??
(outside of home team fans anyway)
- hugefemale dog77

I only agree with the Tavares statement.

I still think the sedins take a lot of undeserved crap

I only agree with the Tavares statement.

I still think the sedins take a lot of undeserved crap
- Isles_since_6

fair enough

I was actually referring to a discussion I had recently and how most posters were loathe to put hall even in the same sentence as JT.
I can understand your allegiance, but hall outscored Tavares last year on a worse team, and has a better career ppg.
but somehow theses two aren't comparable?

right now id give the edge to JT cause he has a playoff appearance, but I certainly don't put halls lack of team success as any reflection on him whatsoever

torts team was pretty stacked too. doesn't seem to be used as a mark against his ring.
he had an absolutely stacked team last year and was a cup favourite. huge underachievement.

im not a Hartley fan per se either, but he coached some pretty terrible teams as well and those lean years to seem to have him written off in terms of this discussion
- hugefemale dog77

I haven't written hartley off, I just don't think he's a better coach than the other choices

Why all the hartley hate? At least in relation to torts who seems to widely considered as undoubtedly the better coach.

Im not even sayin he's great, but he's won a championship at every level he's coached.
Junior, ahl, nhl and even won one in europe recently.
Neither did he do a brutal job last year with what was certainly a brutal team in calgary.

Just seems like contagious diffusion is kinda the name of the game in the hockey world without alot of facts to back the original thought up.
- hugefemale dog77

I don't think he won a championship in Junior, only an "appearance". He certainly has had some success and could very well be a great coach, but recent history in the NHL is not on his side.

torts team was pretty stacked too. doesn't seem to be used as a mark against his ring.
he had an absolutely stacked team last year and was a cup favourite. huge underachievement.

im not a Hartley fan per se either, but he coached some pretty terrible teams as well and those lean years to seem to have him written off in terms of this discussion
- hugefemale dog77

I wasn't as big of a fan of the Rangers team he had last year as a lot of people were, especially after Staal went down. That was devastating for them.

The Lighting were not a favourite to win the year they won. Not by a longshot. The Avalanche were heavy, heavy favourites. In fact, they probably should have won the year before as well.

I don't think he won a championship in Junior, only an "appearance". He certainly has had some success and could very well be a great coach, but recent history in the NHL is not on his side.
- 1970vintage

he won the Q championship with laval in 93 I believe.

he won the Q championship with laval in 93 I believe.
- hugefemale dog77

Hmm, his wiki page says he guided the Laval team to a "Memorial Cup participation"

Greyhounds won in '93, Blazers in '92 and '94...

Oh, I see, you are talking about just the Q, not the CHL.

I'm not a Sutter fan, but he's done a good job so far in LA. I think they will continue to run into problems because they don't play enough offense, even though they have a number of great offensive players. I think his style will get old in LA very quickly if they don't have success this season as he stifles their offense and hopes to win every game 2-1.
- KB3Point0

It doesn't make for great viewing that's for sure.

I wasn't as big of a fan of the Rangers team he had last year as a lot of people were, especially after Staal went down. That was devastating for them.

The Lighting were not a favourite to win the year they won. Not by a longshot. The Avalanche were heavy, heavy favourites. In fact, they probably should have won the year before as well.
- KB3Point0

the lightning won the division the previous year and then finished 2nd in the league with 106 pts the year they won the cup.
they were for sure one of the favs. how could they not be considered that?

gaborik, Richards, nash, stepan, callahan, girardi, mcdonagh, LUNDQVIST all after making the EC..and then adding rick nash??
fair enough if you didn't like the makeup, but it certainly wasn't silly of anyone to put that roster as one of the true favs

They're all awesome, but they all also suck.

Hmm, his wiki page says he guided the Laval team to a "Memorial Cup participation"

Greyhounds won in '93, Blazers in '92 and '94...

Oh, I see, you are talking about just the Q, not the CHL.
- 1970vintage

yeah.

they didn't win the mem cup, but still wont the Q. it's kinda semantics depending on how you look at it, but laval were the quebec league champions

the lightning won the division the previous year and then finished 2nd in the league with 106 pts the year they won the cup.
they were for sure one of the favs. how could they not be considered that?

gaborik, nash, stepan, callahan, girardi, mcdonagh, LUNDQVIST all after making the EC..and then adding rick nash??
fair enough if you didn't like the makeup, but it certainly wasn't silly of anyone to put that roster as one of the true favs
- hugefemale dog77

I picked Rangers in the playoff pool

I think Lundqvst just isn't as good as everyone says...

They're all awesome, but they all also suck.
- Nucker101

Insightful and provocative, great post

I picked Rangers in the playoff pool

I think Lundqvst just isn't as good as everyone says...
- 1970vintage

they were my early season pick along with st.loo. I had given up on nyr by the playoffs though.


I think lundqvist probably has to be considered the best in the league.

in a position where success varies greatly from year to year, he's been by far the most consistent in relation to some of the other elite goalies we might compare him to.

he's literally the measuring stick at present imo

I wasn't as big of a fan of the Rangers team he had last year as a lot of people were, especially after Staal went down. That was devastating for them.

The Lighting were not a favourite to win the year they won. Not by a longshot. The Avalanche were heavy, heavy favourites. In fact, they probably should have won the year before as well.
- KB3Point0

very accurate statement, losing staal hurt them badly. Gaborik and Richards also struggled quite a bit at times early in the year.

I think lundqvist probably has to be considered the best in the league.

in a position where success varies greatly from year to year, he's been by far the most consistent in relation to some of the other elite goalies we might compare him to.

he's literally the measuring stick at present imo
- hugefemale dog77

Until he poses nude for SI I'm not ready to concede him that honour.

Until he poses nude for SI I'm not ready to concede him that honour.
- 1970vintage

definitely can be considered a mark against his candidacy...

They're all awesome, but they all also suck.
- Nucker101

Yeah! What he said...

I know that. But which team was he a better coach with.
- IanEsplen

That Anaheim team in '03 was a rag tag bunch of guys so I'd say that was more impressive but he hadn'tbeen a head coach for too long before Detroit scooped him up.

I picked Rangers in the playoff pool

I think Lundqvst just isn't as good as everyone says...
- 1970vintage

the issue with lundqvist was that probably half if not more of the goals he let up were lucky deflections due to all the bodies in front of him since everyone collapsed or were because he was screened by all the collapsing bodies in front of him.

a lot of people are saying that now with a more open system and a different defense that lundqvist will suffer...but i actually think he will improve. i mean...washington's gameplan in the playoffs was literally just to blast shots from the point to try and get deflections or screened goals and it was working, before torts adjusted to give the point men less open space. now that hank can actually see the shots, i think he'll improve. obviously, hank was starting to get very annoyed by all the bodies in front of him from his end of the year interviews.

very accurate statement, losing staal hurt them badly. Gaborik and Richards also struggled quite a bit at times early in the year.
- Isles_since_6

yea i feel that staal is a little underrated by a lot of fans around the league. the guy is a #1 defender in my book with very underrated offensive skill that he's been adding to his game the last couple seasons but a lot of people knock him for being nothing more than a 3-4 dman.

the issue with lundqvist was that probably half if not more of the goals he let up were lucky deflections due to all the bodies in front of him since everyone collapsed or were because he was screened by all the collapsing bodies in front of him.

a lot of people are saying that now with a more open system and a different defense that lundqvist will suffer...but i actually think he will improve. i mean...washington's gameplan in the playoffs was literally just to blast shots from the point to try and get deflections or screened goals and it was working, before torts adjusted to give the point men less open space. now that hank can actually see the shots, i think he'll improve. obviously, hank was starting to get very annoyed by all the bodies in front of him from his end of the year interviews.


yea i feel that staal is a little underrated by a lot of fans around the league. the guy is a #1 defender in my book with very underrated offensive skill that he's been adding to his game the last couple seasons but a lot of people knock him for being nothing more than a 3-4 dman.
- rangerdanger94

I'd take girardi if I could pick one ranger dman to move to the isles. hopefully staal regains enough of his vision in that eye to not have his play affected by it. Berard was never the same after his injury.