man, this is fun stuff.
- -davies-

What's that? You want to go back to the Carter debate?

I cant find a legit source for that
- GOA88

Look man, I have no issue with you, so don't take this personally. But Giroux is not even the best defensive forward on his team, and definitely not a top in the league. He's adequate to slightly above average, and can elevate it at times, and I hope that becomes the norm. But right now, he's nowhere near the premier ones.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/feature/?id=81134
http://www.thehockeynews....-by-the-players-3531.html
- GOA88

Your 2nd list still has Lidstrom on it...

WTF is that? Looks like a hybrid between the University of Alabama, and the Football Giants.

Not a fan of that at all. Where did you see this?
- PLindbergh31

it was done by the amazingly talented illustrator/animator and sports identity designer fraser davidson. i was looking through some of his work on dribble.com yesterday. i like the elephant reference. the site is often used for people to post work that's in mid-process, not necessarily finished. among other things, he's responsible for every single SB Nation logo. the dude is supremely talented.

What's that? You want to go back to the Carter debate?
- BulliesPhan87

Jeff Carter loves NASCAR. 'Nuff said yo.

Your 2nd list still has Lidstrom on it...
- JAKEw1234

Hahah, cracking me up dude.

I know technically it's not, but it feels like a conflict of interests to me. I could give a rats ass about the NBA, haven't watched games since Jordan retired, but there is something wrong with owning a Philadelphia sports franchise, and the Devils.
- PLindbergh31

i don't see how you can own the rival a team you share a building with. it just pisses me off. (frank) josh harris, (frank) the sixers, and (frank) the (frank)ing devils.

What's that? You want to go back to the Carter debate?
- BulliesPhan87

Jeff Carter loves NASCAR. 'Nuff said yo.


- jak521

What year/set is that from?

But you stated that he has been ranked as one of the top defensive forwards.
- MJL

I did, but how are you ranked higher than Toews if your not? Its logic and as far as coming off a great season I guess those people think that was a fluke? How about effectively shutting down Crosby in the playoffs, I guess thats a fluke as well? You cant judge a player or a team fairly in a 48 game season, there was a lot of weird things that went down. He still averaged a point per game and was solid on the PK, he plays the first PK unit for christs sake. He must really suck, thats why the PK was 5th....

What year/set is that from?
- jmatchett383

I got it from this website...
http://www.thehockeynews....-by-the-players-3531.html

...so I guess it would be a couple years old?

While you of course want all of your forwards to play well defensively, I'm not worried in the slightest about Giroux or Vorcek.

First, having a healthy and in shape Hartnell on their line is only going to make them better; being able to keep the puck in the other team's zone for long stretches at a time will not only lead to goals and powerplays, but it's also pretty hard for the other team to score while the puck is in their zone.

Second, assuming they stay healthy, the D should be better than last season and that will help all the forwards out. Guys like Streit and Gustafsson can make crisp, accurate 1st passes out of the D zone and they makes the forwards job a lot easier.

and third, both Flyers goalies handle the puck and move it well and that will also greatly help team D.

I did, but how are you ranked higher than Toews if your not? Its logic and as far as coming off a great season I guess those people think that was a fluke? How about effectively shutting down Crosby in the playoffs, I guess thats a fluke as well? You cant judge a player or a team fairly in a 48 game season, there was a lot of weird things that went down. He still averaged a point per game and was solid on the PK, he plays the first PK unit for christs sake. He must really suck, thats why the PK was 5th....
- GOA88

But what about all the other players that were able to replicate their yearly averages?

I did, but how are you ranked higher than Toews if your not? Its logic and as far as coming off a great season I guess those people think that was a fluke? How about effectively shutting down Crosby in the playoffs, I guess thats a fluke as well? You cant judge a player or a team fairly in a 48 game season, there was a lot of weird things that went down. He still averaged a point per game and was solid on the PK, he plays the first PK unit for christs sake. He must really suck, thats why the PK was 5th....
- GOA88

So, are Crosby and Malkin better defensively than Giroux as well? Because they're ranked higher than him. Also, Datsyuk is behind him, so is he better defensively than Datsyuk?

Look man, I have no issue with you, so don't take this personally. But Giroux is not even the best defensive forward on his team, and definitely not a top in the league. He's adequate to slightly above average, and can elevate it at times, and I hope that becomes the norm. But right now, he's nowhere near the premier ones.
- jmatchett383

He isnt on the Bergeron, Datsyuk, Toews level defensively, I know that. Im saying he is a great 2-way player. Hes not the best at either one. He is a package and thats why he is ranked so high.

it was done by the amazingly talented illustrator/animator and sports identity designer fraser davidson. i was looking through some of his work on dribble.com yesterday. i like the elephant reference. the site is often used for people to post work that's in mid-process, not necessarily finished. among other things, he's responsible for every single SB Nation logo. the dude is supremely talented.
- hammarby31

it's well done, just don't like it as a NYG logo.

But what about all the other players that were able to replicate their yearly averages?
- jak521

You mean Toews or Stamkos or others who play with world class linemates?

But what about all the other players that were able to replicate their yearly averages?
- jak521

i will immediately regret getting into this at all but giroux was clearly not at 100% to start the season
we heard about a head/neck injury but there was also something wrong lower body, he was skating funky

The no huddle should work wonders keeping that paper machete defense off the field.


- PLindbergh31

That Merideth Marocovich is one big female dog

He isnt on the Bergeron, Datsyuk, Toews level defensively, I know that. Im saying he is a great 2-way player. Hes not the best at either one. He is a package and thats why he is ranked so high.
- GOA88

I dont think anyone is denying that G is an amazing talent.. It just that when people disagreed with your premise (and attempt at factual proof that you were right about your opinion) that he is in the top 5 and one of the best 2 way players in the game.

I love G just as much as the next guy.

i will immediately regret getting into this at all
- -davies-

I agree. I'm done.

i will immediately regret getting into this at all but giroux was clearly not at 100% to start the season
we heard about a head/neck injury but there was also something wrong lower body, he was skating funky
- -davies-

There is no doubt that he was beat up.. he got hurt over in Germany if I remember correctly (seems like a decade ago). Regardless, I dont think there is a single person that honestly believes that he was a top 5 talent in the league last season...

I would love to see what Giroux could do with Martin St.Louis or Marian Hossa or Corey Perry, the list goes on. He plays with Scott Hartnell and most recently Voracek who isnt in the same category as those players by far

He isnt on the Bergeron, Datsyuk, Toews level defensively, I know that. Im saying he is a great 2-way player. Hes not the best at either one. He is a package and thats why he is ranked so high.
- GOA88

He has the potential to be a great two-way player.

There is no doubt that he was beat up.. he got hurt over in Germany if I remember correctly (seems like a decade ago). Regardless, I dont think there is a single person that honestly believes that he was a top 5 talent in the league last season...
- jak521

This isnt based off of last season. Im talking in general, talent wise, Crosby doesnt perform the best every year, but he is the best player in the league and everyone knows that.