Are YOU clueless? Kovalchuk was signed to a 100 dollar contract...he is an astounding -116 over his career....please tell me that lou took his plus minus into consideration when he offered him THAT much money...i'm begging you...
- annoyance_101

So +/- is not a valuable stat whatsoever because Lou Lamoriello gave a stupid contract to Kovalchuk? What's your argument here???

This deserves a ban.

How dare you speak of him that way!!

That dude is all class. End of discussion
- hugefemale dog77

Excuse me? Have you met him in person? I'm allowed to have an opinion of a guy that had a group of children in wheelchairs (i was not one of them but i was there, waiting in the same group of kids) ranging from 5 to 18 waiting for him to come sign autographs, only to have him sign 3 things, and then ask if he was done yet.....ya REAL class act that is...there was at least 30-40 kids there...not 3...there were others from team canada there and they were MORE than happy to sign autographs and stand around to talk to the kids for what seemed like an hour while the other players came out of the lockerroom... and no, he was not joking about it, he then rolled his eyes when people kept asking for his autograph...it is PART OF HIS JOB...he was paid MILLIONS to do so!

Are YOU clueless? Kovalchuk was signed to a 100 dollar contract...he is an astounding -116 over his career....please tell me that lou took his plus minus into consideration when he offered him THAT much money...i'm begging you...
- annoyance_101

The team you play on matters. Kessel was a +23 with boston and then all of a sudden was a -30 with the leafs. Did he forget to play defense with the deal. +/- is very much a team stat that helps when you have a good goalie and a good defense.

Kovy played on all those crap teams with ATL so hard to say how bad he was defensively.

Excuse me? Have you met him in person? I'm allowed to have an opinion of a guy that had a group of children in wheelchairs (i was not one of them but i was there, waiting in the same group of kids) ranging from 5 to 18 waiting for him to come sign autographs, only to have him sign 3 things, and then ask if he was done yet.....ya REAL class act that is...there was at least 30-40 kids there...not 3...there were others from team canada there and they were MORE than happy to sign autographs and stand around to talk to the kids for what seemed like an hour while the other players came out of the lockerroom...
- annoyance_101

WOW. love that story. The general public glorifies all these athletes and its a shame. I have a similar story about Linden but I just think he had a bad day because he has done so much good in Van. Bertuzzi on the other hand was a tool.

NHL commissioner Gary Bettman is reportedly pushing to put an expansion team in Seattle.
If the report is true, then the new Seattle team could start playing as early as the 2014-15 campaign. The timing would make some sense. The situation with the Phoenix Coyotes has been resolved for the time being, the new CBA has given the NHL owners a bigger share of the revenue pie and therefore put them in a stronger financial position, and the new realignment lends itself to western expansion. As it is, the new Eastern Conference has 16 teams while the Western Conference has 14. Putting two more teams in the Western Conference - say Seattle and another city - would balance the sides.

This deserves a ban.

How dare you speak of him that way!!

That dude is all class. End of discussion
- hugefemale dog77

Hardly. I served and the LA Kings once. He and all the ex-Oilers were total c*cks, with the exception of Marty McSorley who was nothing but classy & very polite. Paul Coffey is the biggest douche in the world.

The team you play on matters. Kessel was a +23 with boston and then all of a sudden was a -30 with the leafs. Did he forget to play defense with the deal. +/- is very much a team stat that helps when you have a good goalie and a good defense.

Kovy played on all those crap teams with ATL so hard to say how bad he was defensively.
- Bluechip23

So, what youre saying is, Lou didn't sign him to a 100 million dollar contract based on his +/- then...? If Lou didn't know how good he was defensively...he must have taken his +/- hard into consideration.....

Talk about contradiction

Hardly. I served and the LA Kings once. He and all the ex-Oilers were total c*cks, with the exception of Marty McSorley who was nothing but classy & very polite. Paul Coffey is the biggest douche in the world.
- Marwood

My friend made out with marty mcsorley at the roxy. He was married and had kids. Tried to get her back to the hotel room but she denied and just came back to the dorms. LOL. She was 19 he was maybe 36+

Hardly. I served and the LA Kings once. He and all the ex-Oilers were total c*cks, with the exception of Marty McSorley who was nothing but classy & very polite. Paul Coffey is the biggest douche in the world.
- Marwood

I actually was going to add that, I've met McSorley too, he was one of the nicest guys you'll ever meet

So, what youre saying is, Lou didn't sign him to a 100 million dollar contract based on his +/- then...? If Lou didn't know how good he was defensively...he must have taken his +/- hard into consideration.....

Talk about contradiction
- annoyance_101

What are you saying I contradicted???

I strongly disagree with that statement
- IanEsplen

Well, we can have our opinions, I am only basing it on my experience meeting him maybe you've had better luck than I did...

So, what youre saying is, Lou didn't sign him to a 100 million dollar contract based on his +/- then...? If Lou didn't know how good he was defensively...he must have taken his +/- hard into consideration.....

Talk about contradiction
- annoyance_101

Are you even trying to formulate a rational argument?

So, what youre saying is, Lou didn't sign him to a 100 million dollar contract based on his +/- then...? If Lou didn't know how good he was defensively...he must have taken his +/- hard into consideration.....

Talk about contradiction
- annoyance_101

All i have ever said was +/- is not the best indication of how good a player is defensively. The team matters around him. Kessel is the best indication of that. +23 with Boston and then -30 with the leafs in consecutive years.

What are you saying I contradicted???
- Bluechip23

that +/- was a stat that helps a GM decide how much a player is signed to...I've just shown that Kovalchuk was one of the highest paid players in the NHL before he bolted...yet his +/- sucked

Are you even trying to formulate a rational argument?
- KB3Point0

lol

that +/- was a stat that helps a GM decide how much a player is signed to...I've just shown that Kovalchuk was one of the highest paid players in the NHL before he bolted...yet his +/- sucked
- annoyance_101

Can you please go back and say when I have said that. I would like you to find that quote. Just breath a little and think what you are going to say before you just blurt it out.

She's all tramp.
But i aint hatin. Id love to hit that
- hugefemale dog77

She has the best twitter account ever. As long as she keeps posting pictures.

All i have ever said was +/- is not the best indication of how good a player is defensively. The team matters around him. Kessel is the best indication of that. +23 with Boston and then -30 with the leafs in consecutive years.
- Bluechip23

That should show you how useless +/- REALLY IS, its based on the team that he is playing for, his line mates, everything else...its nothing to do with his defensive play...if he were the only one on the ice for his team, I'd say its a great stat to show his defensive play, but +/- is indicative of the team around him...

Claude Julien plays one of the most defensive systems in the league...of course Kessels +/- was going to be better on Boston...they were a better team...it has no barring on HIS individual play...GM's do not take +/- of a player in to consideration when offering a contract...and you are claiming that they do...

That should show you how useless +/- REALLY IS, its based on the team that he is playing for, his line mates, everything else...its nothing to do with his defensive play...if he were the only one on the ice for his team, I'd say its a great stat to show his defensive play, but +/- is indicative of the team around him...
- annoyance_101

Maybe we should start debating Corsi as well.

That should show you how useless +/- REALLY IS, its based on the team that he is playing for, his line mates, everything else...its nothing to do with his defensive play...if he were the only one on the ice for his team, I'd say its a great stat to show his defensive play, but +/- is indicative of the team around him...

Claude Julien plays one of the most defensive systems in the league...of course Kessels +/- was going to be better on Boston...they were a better team...it has no barring on HIS individual play...GM's do not take +/- of a player in to consideration when offering a contract...and you are claiming that they do...
- annoyance_101

When did I say that? I never did. So please get your facts straight before you make stuff up.

Well, we can have our opinions, I am only basing it on my experience meeting him maybe you've had better luck than I did...
- annoyance_101

I feel bad for professional athletes who work hard and put in tonnes of effort over decades just to have a few people spout off about negative experiences they witnessed with absolutely zero context whatsoever. Gretzky's a horrible guy because one time he only signed 5 autographs for kids and not for the 50 others who were waiting? Could he have been sick, hurt, tired, having a bad day, or seen his daughter post more pics of herself on instagram? Maybe signing 100s of autographs everywhere he goes is just a little too much even for The Great One?

And guess what, it isn't their job. That is the extra bit they do outside of their job for the fans.

That should show you how useless +/- REALLY IS, its based on the team that he is playing for, his line mates, everything else...its nothing to do with his defensive play...if he were the only one on the ice for his team, I'd say its a great stat to show his defensive play, but +/- is indicative of the team around him...

Claude Julien plays one of the most defensive systems in the league...of course Kessels +/- was going to be better on Boston...they were a better team...it has no barring on HIS individual play...GM's do not take +/- of a player in to consideration when offering a contract...and you are claiming that they do...
- annoyance_101

This is just too funny!

Excuse me? Have you met him in person? I'm allowed to have an opinion of a guy that had a group of children in wheelchairs (i was not one of them but i was there, waiting in the same group of kids) ranging from 5 to 18 waiting for him to come sign autographs, only to have him sign 3 things, and then ask if he was done yet.....ya REAL class act that is...there was at least 30-40 kids there...not 3...there were others from team canada there and they were MORE than happy to sign autographs and stand around to talk to the kids for what seemed like an hour while the other players came out of the lockerroom... and no, he was not joking about it, he then rolled his eyes when people kept asking for his autograph...it is PART OF HIS JOB...he was paid MILLIONS to do so!
- annoyance_101

It was a joke u tools.

I thought the ban and 'how dare you' would be the clincher. But apparently not

I have not said +/- is a useless stat. I actually think +/- is a very valuable stat, but it does require a large enough sample size. Generally a full season works, but 3 should also be quite sufficient.

I'm not saying he won't get paid. I even think he could get in the $6M - $7M range. I just said he won't get $8M. It's just far too high when you look at the comparable salaries.
- KB3Point0

Apologizes to bluechip, its this guy that said it...

I feel bad for professional athletes who work hard and put in tonnes of effort over decades just to have a few people spout off about negative experiences they witnessed with absolutely zero context whatsoever. Gretzky's a horrible guy because one time he only signed 5 autographs for kids and not for the 50 others who were waiting? Could he have been sick, hurt, tired, having a bad day, or seen his daughter post more pics of herself on instagram? Maybe signing 100s of autographs everywhere he goes is just a little too much even for The Great One?

And guess what, it isn't their job. That is the extra bit they do outside of their job for the fans.
- KB3Point0

100% agree. If you think a professional athlete is a role model then you have crappy parents. They are paid to play a sport not to sign your autograph.