I don't know, another 5-7 years in Toronto playing fairly well might give him a shot.

After all, every year there are rumblings as to why CoJo isn't in.
- IanEsplen

CuJo should be in, thats just dumb, but I'm not saying Kessel wont pass bures goal totals, but it will take nearly twice as many games...do you believe Kovalchuk will be in HOF? if he doesnt make it, Kessel shouldn't stand a chance...

Perry (+12 over last 3 years) and Getzlaf (+17 over last 3 years) have been minus players once in their careers. Kessel (-33 over last 3 years) has been a positive player once in his career. You can't justify ridiculous salary expectations by using one stat that is convenient for your argument.

Look at the top 25 cap hits in the NHL and pick out approximately where you feel Kessel would be comparable. Out of those 25 you could make an argument that he deserves as much as Heatley (signed 5 years ago, injuries have taken their toll) Vanek (ridiculous RFA offer that Buffalo matched, hard to make him a realistic comparable for anybody) Semin (has way more talent than Kessel, but also a much bigger floater). Every single one of the rest deserve more than him. Kopitar is #25 at $6.8M. Even if Kessel got $7M he'd be severely overpaid. There is no way he gets $8M.
- KB3Point0

Kessel is also a PPG player in the Playoffs. He has 22pts in 23 games and also 11G. How come all of a sudden +/- is such an amazing stat? You have earlier said that +/- is a useless stat.

Kessel over the last 2 years is a top 6 scorer in the NHL. Those guys get PAID. I am not saying he deserves it just what I think he will get. After this year Kessel will have another top 10 year in points and the reality is those players break the bank.

Maybe 8 was being too crazy but to think he isnt going to be breaking the bank is not being realistic. If he ever hits free agency teams will throw a boat load at him.

CuJo should be in, thats just dumb, but I'm not saying Kessel wont pass bures goal totals, but it will take nearly twice as many games...do you believe Kovalchuk will be in HOF? if he doesnt make it, Kessel shouldn't stand a chance...
- annoyance_101

Kovalchuk pretty much embodies the opposite of what hockey players should. The guy defected after costing NJ their future x10 to acquire him - because he was too special to play in Atlanta for the 100M contract he was offered. So personally, I believe hes the furthest thing from a HOFer there should be. The anti-leader.

Kovalchuk pretty much embodies the opposite of what hockey players should. The guy defected after costing NJ their future x10 to acquire him - because he was too special to play in Atlanta for the 100M contract he was offered. So personally, I believe hes the furthest thing from a HOFer there should be. The anti-leader.
- Seitch2

his numbers are leaps and bounds better than kessels though as i said numbers don't always matter

CuJo should be in, thats just dumb, but I'm not saying Kessel wont pass bures goal totals, but it will take nearly twice as many games...do you believe Kovalchuk will be in HOF? if he doesnt make it, Kessel shouldn't stand a chance...
- annoyance_101

The way they pick the HOF is stupid as well. They should be comparing players during their own era not what the total stats are. A player in the 80's to score 500 goals compared to the player in the 2000's to score 500 goals is 2 very different players.

You cant fault a guy for being able to stay healthier and play more games. Staying healthy and consistent is a skill as well.

For the record I have never once said Kessel is better than Bure. I merely said that Kessel has a shot at the HOF if he continues at this current pace. He is also one of the best Goal scorers in the NHL Currently.

I also think that Lemiuex dominated his era more than gretzky did. Some stanford stats guy did some algorithim a few years back and put all this data in and it came out that Lemiuex would have scored as much as gretzky if he played in that era.

Obviously the game has changed a lot. Generally games aren't 8-6 anymore. That would help to pad Bure's SHG stats. With all due respect, no Kessel is not Bure, but their intangibles are very much alike - create offense. And in that respect, Kessel effectively does whats expected to him.
- Seitch2

Over half of Pavel's career was played in a time where the goals per game were lower than what they are now. In 2000-01 he scored 29.5% of his team's goals. I'm not weighing in on Pavel v Kessel as it's a stupid discussion, but don't disrespect Pavel's numbers. He only played a few seasons in the glory years of the early 90s and played many years in the heart of the clutching and grabbing era that saw guys like Derian Hatcher become all-stars.

Kessel is also a PPG player in the Playoffs. He has 22pts in 23 games and also 11G. How come all of a sudden +/- is such an amazing stat? You have earlier said that +/- is a useless stat.

Kessel over the last 2 years is a top 6 scorer in the NHL. Those guys get PAID. I am not saying he deserves it just what I think he will get. After this year Kessel will have another top 10 year in points and the reality is those players break the bank.

Maybe 8 was being too crazy but to think he isnt going to be breaking the bank is not being realistic. If he ever hits free agency teams will throw a boat load at him.
- Bluechip23

I have not said +/- is a useless stat. I actually think +/- is a very valuable stat, but it does require a large enough sample size. Generally a full season works, but 3 should also be quite sufficient.

I'm not saying he won't get paid. I even think he could get in the $6M - $7M range. I just said he won't get $8M. It's just far too high when you look at the comparable salaries.

CuJo should be in, thats just dumb, but I'm not saying Kessel wont pass bures goal totals, but it will take nearly twice as many games...do you believe Kovalchuk will be in HOF? if he doesnt make it, Kessel shouldn't stand a chance...
- annoyance_101

hard to say. It is the "hockey" hall of fame and not the "NHL" hall of fame.

If Kovy's international stats, combined with KHL and NHL, maybe he makes a case.

I have not said +/- is a useless stat. I actually think +/- is a very valuable stat, but it does require a large enough sample size. Generally a full season works, but 3 should also be quite sufficient.

I'm not saying he won't get paid. I even think he could get in the $6M - $7M range. I just said he won't get $8M. It's just far too high when you look at the comparable salaries.
- KB3Point0

Shanahan was -2 over his career, brett hull was -3.........please claim that if kessels +/- were better (which they arent and never will be at this rate) that kessel is better than either of those players...yes +/- is in fact a useless stat

hard to say. It is the "hockey" hall of fame and not the "NHL" hall of fame.

If Kovy's international stats, combined with KHL and NHL, maybe he makes a case.
- IanEsplen

It's the Hockey Hall of Fame. It isn't supposed to be a popularity contest (although it clearly is). Ty Cobb's in the baseball hall of fame. He was a racist a**hole. But he was an amazing ball player. If Kovalchuk puts up a worthy career then he deserves to be in too.

hard to say. It is the "hockey" hall of fame and not the "NHL" hall of fame.

If Kovy's international stats, combined with KHL and NHL, maybe he makes a case.
- IanEsplen

Thats very true...and if anything, thats borderline HOF worthy...being a PPG player...Kessel isn't even close to that

It's the Hockey Hall of Fame. It isn't supposed to be a popularity contest (although it clearly is). Ty Cobb's in the baseball hall of fame. He was a racist a**hole. But he was an amazing ball player. If Kovalchuk puts up a worthy career then he deserves to be in too.
- KB3Point0

Wayne Gretzky is a bigger ass than you'll ever meet in person...

Shanahan was -2 over his career, brett hull was -3.........please claim that if kessels +/- were better (which they arent and never will be at this rate) that kessel is better than either of those players...yes +/- is in fact a useless stat
- annoyance_101

Are you freakin' clueless? No one stat is capable of determining how good / bad a player was. You need multiple stats to help determine their value and contribution. +/- is one of those stats that helps add valuable context.

ugh, thomas hickey at 4...

simmonds in the second round was a gem.

I have not said +/- is a useless stat. I actually think +/- is a very valuable stat, but it does require a large enough sample size. Generally a full season works, but 3 should also be quite sufficient.

I'm not saying he won't get paid. I even think he could get in the $6M - $7M range. I just said he won't get $8M. It's just far too high when you look at the comparable salaries.
- KB3Point0

Just a question do you know what the Goals per game stats are or where you would get it. It would be interesting to see it from the start of Gretz's career to now.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w...f_the_Hockey_Hall_of_Fame its sad looking at this list...I do not think that many in todays game deserve to be mentioned with them...its so hard to gauge though, because the games changed so drastically over the past 50 years...its a different game completely

Wayne Gretzky is a bigger ass than you'll ever meet in person...
- annoyance_101

I strongly disagree with that statement

Wayne Gretzky is a bigger ass than you'll ever meet in person...
- annoyance_101

This deserves a ban.

How dare you speak of him that way!!

That dude is all class. End of discussion

Are you freakin' clueless? No one stat is capable of determining how good / bad a player was. You need multiple stats to help determine their value and contribution. +/- is one of those stats that helps add valuable context.
- KB3Point0

Yes I agree. Its a stat that just adds another layer to the resume. The main determination usually is Goals and assists. With goals always being the premium.

This deserves a ban.

How dare you speak of him that way!!

That dude is all class. End of discussion
- hugefemale dog77

All I know is that I love his daughter. She is all class.

Just a question do you know what the Goals per game stats are or where you would get it. It would be interesting to see it from the start of Gretz's career to now.
- Bluechip23

http://www.quanthockey.com/TS/TS_GoalsPerGame.php

Are you freakin' clueless? No one stat is capable of determining how good / bad a player was. You need multiple stats to help determine their value and contribution. +/- is one of those stats that helps add valuable context.
- KB3Point0

Are YOU clueless? Kovalchuk was signed to a 100 dollar contract...he is an astounding -116 over his career....please tell me that lou took his plus minus into consideration when he offered him THAT much money...i'm begging you...

All I know is that I love his daughter. She is all class.
- Bluechip23

She's all tramp.
But i aint hatin. Id love to hit that

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_members_of_the_Hockey_Hall_of_Fame its sad looking at this list...I do not think that many in todays game deserve to be mentioned with them...its so hard to gauge though, because the games changed so drastically over the past 50 years...its a different game completely
- annoyance_101

You cant compare yesterdays stars to todays. The game is bigger faster stronger than back then. Some of those guys couldnt play with todays guys.

I find people that talk about MLB, NHL and the NBA funny. We glorify the guys from the past when most of them couldnt play in todays game. People talk about Babe ruth in baseball like he is some god. Dude wouldnt even get a tryout in todays game with the athletes that the league has.

Are YOU clueless? Kovalchuk was signed to a 100 dollar contract...he is an astounding -116 over his career....please tell me that lou took his plus minus into consideration when he offered him THAT much money...i'm begging you...
- annoyance_101

What does Kovalchuk have to do with anything??? And what does Kovalchuk's retarded contract have to do with anything???