Exactly. The next guy to captain this team to a Cup is basically an automatic #2 behind Clarke.

Edit: Unless it's Matt Carle.
- jmatchett383

Can we still blame Matt Carle if Claude Giroux doesn't win the Cup?

I feel like we should be able to.

Can we still blame Matt Carle if Claude Giroux doesn't win the Cup?

I feel like we should be able to.
- johndewar

There are very few things you can't blame Matt Carle for (he's responsible for global warming, the death of dinosaurs, the JFK assasination, and The Teletubbies). Those few things are all Jeff Carter's fault.

There are very few things you can't blame Matt Carle for (he's responsible for global warming, the death of dinosaurs, the JFK assasination, and The Teletubbies). Those few things are all Jeff Carter's fault.
- jmatchett383

Pour one out for my homies, the Veloceraptors

Can we still blame Matt Carle if Claude Giroux doesn't win the Cup?

I feel like we should be able to.
- johndewar

Mark Striet will be the new (add a B) itch for this team over the next few years. By the time he is done here he will have beaten an old lady to death with a puppy.

Giroux's mom, with Bernie Parents puppy according to Angelo Cataldi.

Mark Striet will be the new (add a B) itch for this team over the next few years. By the time he is done here he will have beaten an old lady to death with a puppy.

Giroux's mom, with Bernie Parents puppy according to Angelo Cataldi.
- MBFlyerfan

Streit does have whipping boy potential, but I still feel like if Coburn is on this team on Opening Night (!!!Can't Wait!!!), that Cobie is gonna be the guy (right or wrong).

I feel that Desjardins arm injuries in 2004 cost the Flyers the Cup.

I feel that Desjardins arm injuries in 2004 cost the Flyers the Cup.
- Feanor

I feel the same way.

I love Mark Howe.

For those that can have the patience to read this, I sent this to Bill awhile ago during another discussion of Howe.

Hello Bill,

I think Howe was the best player (not the most important) the Flyers have ever had. Over at a sports collectors forum, there was a guy trying to argue the defensive strengths of Phil Housley as part of a who was not in the HHOF thread just as Howe got elected. Eventually, it lead to the part I have quoted below. It was something I had always pondered, particularly in consideration of Howe's 85-86 season. I hope it makes sense and you enjoy it. It also confirmed my own observations from watching the players.


I took a deeper look into my initial analysis of play at EVEN strength. I have a bit of data but will only summarize the methodology and the results.
What I did was take the +/- data for the player and his team for that season (GF less PPGF for Net Goals For ["NGF"] and GA less PPGA for Net Goals Against ["NGA"] that provides net +/-). Consequently, you then have that data for when the player was and was not on the ice. NGF/NGA provides a scoring ratio for the team, player and team w/o the player. Winning teams will almost always have ratios over 1::1 (perhaps a team that has at least a 25+ differential in their special teams will be over .500) and losing teams below 1::1. Once I got that data, I kept both the raw spread of their on/off performance and the ratio of the on/off performance. Hopefully the examples below will present in a readable fashion. The expectation at EVEN strength is that a good player will have a higher NGF/NGA ratio than the team has when he is not on the ice. This would apply to a bad team as well. For example if a team gives up one goal for every 0.90 goals it scores then a really good player on that team may have a 0.93 ratio and the rest of the team a 0.88 ratio.

Year/Team/Player Player GF/PPGF/NGF GA/PPGA/NGA +/- Team GF/PPGF/NGF GA/PPGA/NGA +/- W/O NGF/NGA NGF/NGA Ratio Team Player On/Off Spread % Spread
85-86/Flyers/Howe 188/46/142 93/36/57 +85 335/91/244 241/71/170 +74 102/113 1.435/ 2.491/0.902 1.589 2.76
88-89/Buff/Housley 148/65/83 92/15/77 +15 291/78/213 299/86/213 +0 130/136 1.000/ 1.078/0.956 0.122 1.13
86-87/Bos/Bourque 168/59/109 98/33/65 +44 301/65/236 276/60/216 +20 127/151 1.093/ 1.677/0.841 0.836 1.99
70-71/Bos/Orr 258/79/179 85/30/55 +124 399/80/319 207/53/154 +165 140/99 2.071/ 3.255/1.414 1.840 2.30
84-85/Edm/Gretzky 249/61/188 127/37/90 +98 401/74/327 298/76/222 +105 139/132 1.473/ 2.089/1.053 1.036 1.984

I looked at Howe from 79-80 through 87-88 (nine seasons), Langway from 82-83 through 88-89, Coffey and Gretzky while at Edmonton, Bourque's whole career and Orr from 67-68 through 74-75. Also Housley from start of career through Winnipeg.

Thus, looking at Booby Orr's line, in 1970-71 he was on the ice for 258 Boston goal, 79 were PP goals for a NGF of 179. He was on the ice for 85 goals against, 30 of them while shorthanded for a NGA of 55. His +/- was a record +124 (179-55). Boston scored a total of 399 goals, 80 of which were on the PP for a NGF of 319. The team had 207 GA, 53 of them shorthanded for a NGA of 154 and a team +/- of +165 (319-154). When Orr was not on the ice, the team had a NGF of 140 (319-179) and a NGA of 99 (154-55). At even strength, the Bruins outscored their opponents by 2.071::1 (319/154). When Orr was on the ice, they outscored their opponents 3.255::1 (179/55) and when he was not they outscored their opponents 1.414::1 (140/99). When Orr was on the ice at even strength, the Bruins were 1.84 goals better than when he was not (3.255-1.414) or 2.3x more productive (3.255/1.414).

Thoughts about even strength performance:
Coffey was as I expected - very slightly above the rest of the team some years and below in others. He looks good in the other metrics in that his play was directly more than indirectly responsible for goals (goals and assists). It doesn't hide the fact that his team often did better at outscoring an opponent at even strength when he was not on the ice.
Housley was similar to Coffey. In this evaluation he only had two seasons that would rank with Howe's two worst (79-80 when he was a forward and 83-84). Of course, those two worst were really good seasons, though.
Bourque was amazingly consistent. Only at the end of his Boston tenure did the team perform better with him off the ice. His career spread was 0.373 goals. The nine years I looked at for Howe, his spread was 0.496.
Langway was up and down. Amazingly, in his Norris trophy year, the rest of the team very slightly outperformed him at even strength. However, the Caps were something like 87% on the PK, primarily due to Langway. Howe still should have won the Norris.
Orr was simply amazing. Of the group I looked at, other than Howe, he was the only player to have a ratio 2x the rest of the team, but he did it 4 times. His spread for the years looked at was 1.031 goals.
Gretzky was also amazing, although his numbers don't jump off the page like Orr's. I think this is because the stats I'm looking at favor defensemen (or at least stud defensemen) in that they typically have more Time on Ice (TOI), can influence the flow of play a bit more and +/- probably underweights ACTUAL points (although I believe to a lesser degree than GVT and PS overweight points). For example, in the 84-85 stats above, Gretzky was on the ice for 249 Edmonton goals. He had POINTS on 208 of THEM!!!

I feel the same way.
- MBFlyerfan

Bill Clement called it the day it happened.

http://sports.espn.go.com...004/news/story?id=1777465

The Philadelphia Flyers are not nearly as good a team without Eric Desjardins as they are with him, and his injury likely ends their chances of making the Stanley Cup finals.

Desjardins is Philadelphia's best defenseman and is a picture of stability in all situations. He is on the ice in crunch time whether the Flyers are up a goal or down a goal and is one of the MVPs of the team. Desjardins is also extremely important because he is the only righthanded shot among the Flyers' defensemen, which keeps them out of jams at times because of his ability to move the puck. He is very underrated, does everything asked of him and often does it at the biggest moments, so Philadelphia is going to be hurting with out him.

Discuss


http://sports.yahoo.com/n...in-the-nhl-154114642.html

Discuss


http://sports.yahoo.com/n...in-the-nhl-154114642.html
- MBFlyerfan

I give him credit for giving a nod to the fact that Bob's success with CBJ was done over a shortened season.

Discuss


http://sports.yahoo.com/n...in-the-nhl-154114642.html
- MBFlyerfan

There's 1A/1B (Lundqvist/Quick), 2 (Rinne), and the rest. 4-30 are names out of a hat.

Unless Michael Leighton is in the mix, he's top spot.

Discuss


http://sports.yahoo.com/n...in-the-nhl-154114642.html
- MBFlyerfan

Also: We're all REALLY sure Cory Schneider is THAT good and can carry the load?

#13 in the NHL?

Also: We're all REALLY sure Cory Schneider is THAT good and can carry the load?

#13 in the NHL?
- johndewar

I'm not...I also think Emery will be the starter

Joni was an absolute point-producing menace that year... I don't think I've seen a Flyers dman since then that could skate the puck so effortlessly through the neutral zone and wreak so much havoc pinching down into the circles.

I kind of lump him in with Janne Niinimaa though... so much raw potential held back by vacuum between the ears... both traded quickly by the Flyers, too.

Speaking of the Niinimaa trade, I was surprised to look back and see that Dan McGillis had put up 45 and 49-point seasons as a Flyer in the height of the clutch & grab era... kind of amazing considering he was mostly replacement-level outside of that.
- Tomahawk

McGillis' numbers dropped when he was taken off the PP inexplicably.

If Jesus was so good, how come he never won a Vezina?

If Jesus was so good, how come he never won a Vezina?
- jmatchett383

Probably because of a bias towards North Americans.

has anyone heard anything about timonen, is he feeling healthy?
- Don'tForgetTocchet

Ate too much cotton candy at a carnival the other day. Listed as day-to-day / "kinda pukey."

Desjardins was as smooth as a baby's behind

Desjardins was as smooth as a baby's behind
- Just5

That baby hit puberty in the 2000 playoffs.

Discuss


http://sports.yahoo.com/n...in-the-nhl-154114642.html
- MBFlyerfan

No problem with Mason being that low. I think Mike Smith is pretty high. I also think Kari Lehtonen is very underrated.

Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: Top 10 Offensive Defensemen in Flyers History
- bmeltzer

Does any current Flyer or Prospect hit this list (besides Timmo)??? Hypothetically, if Streit's past seasons were all with Flyers - he would make the list. I'm not sure - at his stage in his career - if he could make it now. But, he's the only hope I see. I just don't think Gus, Ghost, Haag, or Morin have a chance. Could be good defenseman, but not on this list.

Does any current Flyer or Prospect hit this list (besides Timmo)??? Hypothetically, if Streit's past seasons were all with Flyers - he would make the list. I'm not sure - at his stage in his career - if he could make it now. But, he's the only hope I see. I just don't think Gus, Ghost, Haag, or Morin have a chance. Could be good defenseman, but not on this list.
- leon neon

You never know if any of the young guys have a chance to be on this list until they get an actual chance to play.

Gus only very recently got his chance. Is Morin even 18 years old yet?

Point is, we don't know about the young guys yet.

No problem with Mason being that low. I think Mike Smith is pretty high. I also think Kari Lehtonen is very underrated.
- PhillySportsGuy

Smith being that high was what stuck out at me as well. I think he is a product of the system he plays behind.....

Smith being that high was what stuck out at me as well. I think he is a product of the system he plays behind.....
- MBFlyerfan

What stuck out at me was Bobrovsky being #5 after one successful 48 game season.