nope.

it's just under 900k the first 2 years, then $2.3 M the 2nd or something.

not same hit every year.
- Big_Lightnin

Those numbers are according to an article that was just published by David Alter of Sportsnet.

Was discussed in detail a few pages back with references. Bill Daly has confirmed this to be true. The Toronto media has also reported it to be true.

So, it must be true.
- faceto27

ok sweet.

I was working this morning... late to the party.

yesterday it was looking like we didn't have it.

Those numbers are according to an article that was just published by David Alter of Sportsnet.
- faceto27

David alter doesn't understand how the cap recapture works on a buyout then.

it's never the same cap hit every year if there is fluctuation in the salary year to year. The # he quoted is the $$ value Liles gets, but the cap hit is as Law posted, which is actually better for the first 2 years - frees up a full $3M next season.

http://www.capgeek.com/bu...3&buyout_m=06&buyout_d=30

here's the full buyout info.

ok sweet.

I was working this morning... late to the party.

yesterday it was looking like we didn't have it.
- Big_Lightnin

This has been all part of a plan hatched up by Nonis.

Diabolical and devious.

Appears it may work.

I wasn't saying they all need to be paired with a stay at home, but if all 4 of those guys are in the top 4, there's going to be a lot of minuses on the team, and the PK will suck.

Need at least 1 stay at home in the top 4. or 2 Hybrid's. Dion's a hybrid. Franson and Gardiner are offense only. Rielly, we'll see, but let's assume he's offense only to start. D-game isn't there yet.

with every example you listed above - look at the teams 2nd pairing. Usually at least 1 pure stay at home D at #4.
- Big_Lightnin

Dion ate up a lot of those PK minutes and wasn't an issue whatsoever on the PK, most of his minuses were in the first half when he had to play babysitter to Holzer and Kostka, so there's one primary PKer. And Franson started to see a lot more time on the PK as the year concluded. Dion is what he is, and I know you feel Franson was sheltered, but I'm willing to let this play out. Reilly's still a few seasons away, there's plenty of time to see if Franson can continue to improve with more minutes.

I guess my opinions is this BL, the big problem in Franson's and Phaneuf's defensive games are they try to be PMDs when they're just not quick enough to be PMDs, they get themselves tired and put themselves out of position but when they have a skater, a real PMD, like a Brett Hedican or in our case, a Jake Gardiner, they don't have to try and do too much, they don't have to skate as much, they don't get as tired in our own zone, and then they actually use their body. They're essentially in the place or position they need to be on every play. This is why I really liked the Gardiner/Franson pairing. All Franson had to do was read the play and use his strengths (his size, his breakout pass and his shot).

David alter doesn't understand how the cap recapture works on a buyout then.

it's never the same cap hit every year if there is fluctuation in the salary year to year. The # he quoted is the $$ value Liles gets, but the cap hit is as Law posted, which is actually better for the first 2 years - frees up a full $3M next season.

http://www.capgeek.com/bu...3&buyout_m=06&buyout_d=30

here's the full buyout info.
- Big_Lightnin

Those numbers are according to an article that was just published by David Alter of Sportsnet.
- faceto27

Me thinks Alter is wrong about the cap savings ..

$875,000
$875,000
$2,375,000
$1,250,000
$1,250,000
$1,250,000

Me thinks Alter is wrong about the cap savings ..

$875,000
$875,000
$2,375,000
$1,250,000
$1,250,000
$1,250,000
- The Law

Well the best part of all this, is that we will get some closure on the Liles situation by August 4th, the day the buyout window closes.

Dion ate up a lot of those PK minutes and wasn't an issue whatsoever on the PK, most of his minuses were in the first half when he had to play babysitter to Holzer and Kostka, so there's one primary PKer. And Franson started to see a lot more time on the PK as the year concluded. Dion is what he is, and I know you feel Franson was sheltered, but I'm willing to let this play out. Reilly's still a few seasons away, there's plenty of time to see if Franson can continue to improve with more minutes.

I guess my opinions is this BL, the big problem in Franson's and Phaneuf's defensive games are they try to be PMDs when they're just not quick enough to be PMDs, they get themselves tired and put themselves out of position but when they have a skater, a real PMD, like a Brett Hedican or in our case, a Jake Gardiner, they don't have to try and do too much, they don't have to skate as much, they don't get as tired in our own zone, and then they actually use their body. They're essentially in the place or position they need to be on every play. This is why I really liked the Gardiner/Franson pairing. All Franson had to do was read the play and use his strengths (his size, his breakout pass and his shot).
- mykokes

I agree. Dion should focus strictly on D, let gardiner / franson take the 1st unit PP and take 3 minutes or so a game away from Dion.

Dion ate up a lot of those PK minutes and wasn't an issue whatsoever on the PK, most of his minuses were in the first half when he had to play babysitter to Holzer and Kostka, so there's one primary PKer. And Franson started to see a lot more time on the PK as the year concluded. Dion is what he is, and I know you feel Franson was sheltered, but I'm willing to let this play out. Reilly's still a few seasons away, there's plenty of time to see if Franson can continue to improve with more minutes.

I guess my opinions is this BL, the big problem in Franson's and Phaneuf's defensive games are they try to be PMDs when they're just not quick enough to be PMDs, they get themselves tired and put themselves out of position but when they have a skater, a real PMD, like a Brett Hedican or in our case, a Jake Gardiner, they don't have to try and do too much, they don't have to skate as much, they don't get as tired in our own zone, and then they actually use their body. They're essentially in the place or position they need to be on every play. This is why I really liked the Gardiner/Franson pairing. All Franson had to do was read the play and use his strengths (his size, his breakout pass and his shot).
- mykokes

yup don't disagree with any of this.

was just saying that once Rielly is ready to play I expect 1 of Dion, Gardiner, or Franson will be moved.

Dion's actually become much more of a shut-down D, who still plays offense. Will be interesting to see what he and Rielly would be like once the time comes, if he's still here.

Well the best part of all this, is that we will get some closure on the Liles situation by August 4th, the day the buyout window closes.
- faceto27

Yup. Buy him out and replace his roster spot with a depth guy and they should have about 7.5 million to lock up Kadri and Franson.

A trade would be even better though.

Well the best part of all this, is that we will get some closure on the Liles situation by August 4th, the day the buyout window closes.
- faceto27

yup, we'll know by the weekend

Yup. Buy him out and replace his roster spot with a depth guy and they should have about 7.5 million to lock up Kadri and Franson.

A trade would be even better though.
- The Law

Yes a trade would be better, but............

This is Grabo 2.0

Every team in the league knows the Leafs situation. Why trade for him, when he's about to become a UFA.

Yes a trade would be better, but............

This is Grabo 2.0

Every team in the league knows the Leafs situation. Why trade for him, when he's about to become a UFA.
- faceto27

Because its the only way to ensure he picks you - although he does have some sort of limited NTC.

If the Leafs ate half his cap/salary a team would only be paying him 2.1, 2.1 and 1.4. Maybe he's not even worth that - I guess we'll find out soon enough.

Fraser at 1.25 million is way too much for a #6 fringe Dman, especially for a guy who has struggled to even make the NHL over the last 5 seasons. It should be interesting to see what Nonis is going to do when Reilly surprisingly makes the team this year, or what he has in mind when he is on the team for sure next year.
- ThePresident

Fraser is no longer a fringe guy. He should hold a roster spot for the rest of his playing days in Toronto, at 1.2 million there is no one in the league I'd rather plug into his spot.

Yes a trade would be better, but............

This is Grabo 2.0

Every team in the league knows the Leafs situation. Why trade for him, when he's about to become a UFA.
- faceto27

If Liles was a UFA right now what do you think he gets? The answer to that question will answer yours.

Fraser is no longer a fringe guy. He should hold a roster spot for the rest of his playing days in Toronto, at 1.2 million there is no one in the league I'd rather plug into his spot.
- Leafland

Can we wait until a full year before we start plugging players in places for eternity? I mean, remember at the start of the season when OV was the big bust and Vanek and Marleau were on pace for 200 goals and 400 points or whatever. Shortened years are tricky to judge based on the nature of experience and hot/cold streaks.

I agree that he deserves his chance to prove he's an NHL regular again though.

Me thinks Alter is wrong about the cap savings ..

$875,000
$875,000
$2,375,000
$1,250,000
$1,250,000
$1,250,000
- The Law

Yeah the buyout is based on salary/caphit/buyout/savings. They break it down on capgeek.

Liles salary is 4.25,4.25,2.75

The buyout is 1.25 per year,but were not benefitting much capspace compared to the salary because the salary is high the first 2 years, the caphit stays at a low 875k. When his salary drops to 2.75 on his 3.875 cap hit, were saving more which gets put on the penalty to 2.375 in the 3rd year.

Then the final 3 years it goes back to it's regular buyout penalty of 1.25

Kindof confusing I know.

If Liles was a UFA right now what do you think he gets? The answer to that question will answer yours.
- D.Lemieux

Something like Keith Ballard probably. 2 years, 3 mill

If Liles was a UFA right now what do you think he gets? The answer to that question will answer yours.
- D.Lemieux

The Leafs can make him "yours" for a 3 year 5.6 million dollar contract (1.85/yr).

Lets hope some team(s) view that as a good contract.

Edit: Also, technically the Leafs could carry less than 23 guys on their active roster and maybe save enough money to not have to buy out Liles.

Drop Smith and Holzer (carry 21 players) and they'd have about 6.2 million to sign Kadri and Franson.

Liles is not getting bought out makes no sense for the leafs.

He makes 3.875 for the next 3 years. Even if they trade him and retain 1.8. ( more than I think they would have to lots of teams would take Liles for more than 2 M. ) leafs will be paying Liles 5.4 to play for another team over 3 years. Buyout is 7.9 over 6 years. Which option would you choose?

Fraser is no longer a fringe guy. He should hold a roster spot for the rest of his playing days in Toronto, at 1.2 million there is no one in the league I'd rather plug into his spot.
- Leafland

right now.

might not be the case when Percy, Finn, Granberg, Blacker, hell even Holzer are season, make less, and all are better skaters than him.

Fraser was plug until last year. $1.2M is the absolute MAX he should be earning and if he wants more next summer, he will be replaced.

Can we wait until a full year before we start plugging players in places for eternity? I mean, remember at the start of the season when OV was the big bust and Vanek and Marleau were on pace for 200 goals and 400 points or whatever. Shortened years are tricky to judge based on the nature of experience and hot/cold streaks.

I agree that he deserves his chance to prove he's an NHL regular again though.
- AdamFrench

I'll GardiNORRIS ya one. If awarded to a guy that jumps in to every rush regardless if whether it's a good idea then yes.

Liles is not getting bought out makes not sense for the leafs.

He makes 3.875 for the next 3 years. Even if they trade him and retain 1.8. ( more than I think they would have to lots of teams would take Liles for more than 2 M. ) leafs will be paying Liles 5.4 to play for another team over 3 years. Buyout is 7.9 over 6 years. Which option would you choose?
- D.Lemieux

the one that is actually possible.

They have 2 days to decide. They HAVE to remove him from the roster, or Trade Franson. (or someone else)

They only have 2 days to make sure they do it.

You willing to risk it because they "might" be able to work out a trade?

right now.

might not be the case when Percy, Finn, Granberg, Blacker, hell even Holzer are season, make less, and all are better skaters than him.

Fraser was plug until last year. $1.2M is the absolute MAX he should be earning and if he wants more next summer, he will be replaced.
- Big_Lightnin

Made Franson better.