Franchise goalies are harder to find imo

Its a risk but one that's more than worth it and he knows he will be the number 1 goalie

devils have been built from goal out and its worked out pretty well
- dmarsden2988

i love that mind set, my high school did back in the day and it worked wonders for us. however, todays game i think you need to change that a bit. a goalie is important, but so is scoring. since 2 lockouts ago, what have the devils done (not saying that to sound like a Richard)? not much, i mean they made the finals a couple of years ago, but other than that not much. teams who have focused on scoring and depth are the ones winning cups. theyve made rules to change the game to a more offensive style, lou has to change with that or down the road you'll find yourself in the same spot the rangers were in for all that time. the GM not wanting to change his style and insisting it can still work the old way.

Awesome.

i love that mind set, my high school did back in the day and it worked wonders for us. however, todays game i think you need to change that a bit. a goalie is important, but so is scoring. since 2 lockouts ago, what have the devils done (not saying that to sound like a Richard)? not much, i mean they made the finals a couple of years ago, but other than that not much. teams who have focused on scoring and depth are the ones winning cups. theyve made rules to change the game to a more offensive style, lou has to change with that or down the road you'll find yourself in the same spot the rangers were in for all that time. the GM not wanting to change his style and insisting it can still work the old way.
- hauger14

The style they play works. This past season was a write-off because of when Marty was injured, despite outplaying/out chancing the other team and holding them to as little as 12 SOG, Hedberg would let in soft goals. Something Schneider hopefully won't do.

Also, of the last 4 teams to win the cup, only half of them have been more offensive

where do the oilers finish?
- dmarsden2988

Higher than bottom five, that's for sure. Also they will get to play teams in the east again, even in the last 5 years their record against Eastern teams is much better than teams from the west. While there are a few heavy Eastern teams there are a boat load of them in the west. And yes the team does some times take chances it doesn't play grind it out boring hockey, last i checked Hockey is supposed to be entertainment. If every team in the league played a grinding ultra safe style I'm thinking the ratings would be in the toilet and stadiums would start to empty. Phoenix in the West plays the same style and they get about 300 real fans per game. Yes Phoenix almost always makes the play offs, is this good for the game, that's debatable.
I have the NHL package and watch plenty of teams, as long as they are entertaining to watch. When Phoenix plays New Jersey I'm guessing not a lot of fans outside of these 2 cities will be watching.

Higher than bottom five, that's for sure. Also they will get to play teams in the east again, even in the last 5 years their record against Eastern teams is much better than teams from the west. While there are a few heavy Eastern teams there are a boat load of them in the west. And yes the team does some times take chances it doesn't play grind it out boring hockey, last i checked Hockey is supposed to be entertainment. If every team in the league played a grinding ultra safe style I'm thinking the ratings would be in the toilet and stadiums would start to empty. Phoenix in the West plays the same style and they get about 300 real fans per game. Yes Phoenix almost always makes the play offs, is this good for the game, that's debatable.
I have the NHL package and watch plenty of teams, as long as they are entertaining to watch. When Phoenix plays New Jersey I'm guessing not a lot of fans outside of these 2 cities will be watching.
- vanlee

If getting scored on 4 or 5 times a game is exciting then I'll pass. I'm content with "boring" hockey if it wins games.

And that has more to do with the team being in Arizona rather than the style they play

If getting scored on 4 or 5 times a game is exciting then I'll pass. I'm content with "boring" hockey if it wins games.

And that has more to do with the team being in Arizona rather than the style they play
- bobert836

It's okay, he can deny he had great TV viewership last year despite not making the playoffs.

omg, devils so boring. you know what's better? Not making the playoffs 10 years straight and drafting top 5 year after year. woooo. I hope this happens to us soon.

The style they play works. This past season was a write-off because of when Marty was injured, despite outplaying/out chancing the other team and holding them to as little as 12 SOG, Hedberg would let in soft goals. Something Schneider hopefully won't do.

Also, of the last 4 teams to win the cup, only half of them have been more offensive
- bobert836

The importance of defense has never changed, just how you play it has. Boston, LA, and Chicago, the most succesful teams last season and of recent, were all great defensive teams. 3rd, 7th, and 1st in goals against, 13th, 3rd, and 4th in shots against. Of the top half of the league in goals against, only 3 teams missed the playoffs. Columbus and Phoenix had top goalies and the third was the devils. All of 2 teams missed the playoffs that were in the top half in shots against. Defense is still very important.

It's okay, he can deny he had great TV viewership last year despite not making the playoffs.

omg, devils so boring. you know what's better? Not making the playoffs 10 years straight and drafting top 5 year after year. woooo. I hope this happens to us soon.
- MrToast

If people want to watch exciting hockey they should watch juniors or college. A lot less focus on systems and more on talent. That style of play is going to fail at the NHL level and it pretty much always has.

If people want to watch exciting hockey they should watch juniors or college. A lot less focus on systems and more on talent. That style of play is going to fail at the NHL level and it pretty much always has.
- rmdevil313

Wait, are you telling me the best teams in the NHL have a system and don't just let skill players run around and score goals?

saying the devils will finish in the bottom 5 is a bit too much at this stage of the offseason. Loved the Schneider trade, very technically sound goaltender who can actually remain in position for rebounds, which is one major flaw I find with Luongo having watched a number of the Canucks games (living in Vancouver)

If they manage to get solid goaltending and a team that is usually a lock for the playoffs suffers some critical injuries then there's no reason they can't make the playoffs. Lot of factors during the year and until Brodeur and Kovalchuk got hurt the Devils were playing good hockey.

Their margin of error this year is a lot smaller, but it's doable. Flyers and Isles are not good defensive teams, Rangers typically hurt for offense, Columbus has to prove Bob's season wasn't a fluke, Caps don't exactly look like a top tier team. There's a lot of room in the metro division (christ I hate that name) and aside from the Pens I don't see any sure locks for the playoffs.

**edited due to typo**

Wait, are you telling me the best teams in the NHL have a system and don't just let skill players run around and score goals?
- MrToast

"I don't coach offense." -Torts

"I don't coach offense." -Torts
- rmdevil313

watching the Tort's coached Rangers always made me think of very young kids playing soccer, and all of them collapsing on the ball all the time, then just randomly kicking it all over the place, and eventually someone would end up in front of the net and score. Not exactly playmaking abilities. Hell of a defensive shot blocking team, but man was that ever boring and ugly most of the time offensively.

saying the devils will finish in the bottom 5 is a bit too much at this stage of the offseason. Loved the Schneider trade, very technically sound goaltender who can actually remain in position for rebounds, which is one major flaw I find with Luongo having watched a number of the Canucks games (living in Vancouver)

If they manage to get solid goaltending and a team that is usually a lock for the playoffs suffers some critical injuries then there's no reason they can't make the playoffs. Lot of factors during the year and until Brodeur and Kovalchuk got hurt the Devils were playing good hockey.

Their margin of error this year is a lot smaller, but it's doable. Flyers and Isles are not good defensive teams, Rangers typically hurt for offense, Columbus has to prove Bob's season wasn't a fluke, Caps don't exactly look like a top tier team. There's a lot of room in the metro division (christ I hate that name) and aside from the Pens I don't see any sure locks for the playoffs.

**edited due to typo**
- Isles_since_6

I wouldn't say they're a lock for the playoffs, it just wouldn't surprise me in the least if they did make it. Unless a lot of things go wrong, they won't be a bottom 5 team. You can't honestly say the Devils aren't better than at least 5 other teams right now.

watching the Tort's coached Rangers always made me think of very young kids playing soccer, and all of them collapsing on the ball all the time, then just randomly kicking it all over the place, and eventually someone would end up in front of the net and score. Not exactly playmaking abilities. Hell of a defensive shot blocking team, but man was that ever boring and ugly most of the time offensively.
- Isles_since_6

Agreed. Its nice to have players like Girardi and Callahan always willing to throw their body in front of any shot, but why the hell would your whole defensive gameplan be to block shots? It made it very hard for the rangers to move out of their zone and it wore the team down. Don't really know what torts was thinking.

Higher than bottom five, that's for sure. Also they will get to play teams in the east again, even in the last 5 years their record against Eastern teams is much better than teams from the west. While there are a few heavy Eastern teams there are a boat load of them in the west. And yes the team does some times take chances it doesn't play grind it out boring hockey, last i checked Hockey is supposed to be entertainment. If every team in the league played a grinding ultra safe style I'm thinking the ratings would be in the toilet and stadiums would start to empty. Phoenix in the West plays the same style and they get about 300 real fans per game. Yes Phoenix almost always makes the play offs, is this good for the game, that's debatable.
I have the NHL package and watch plenty of teams, as long as they are entertaining to watch. When Phoenix plays New Jersey I'm guessing not a lot of fans outside of these 2 cities will be watching.
- vanlee

i dont know i mean i thought the point of sports is to win, you can have a fast exciting team all you want to have entertainment but if the results aren't there then what exactly is the point?

does it really matter what fans of other teams care about or watch? no not at all, if they just want entertainment then they can go to a movie, they can go to a bar, or vegas, but im sure most fans are more interested in winning when it comes to sports

when was the last time a team that was full offense won the cup? what about a defensive team?

you need a good balance with very good or hot goaltending

i know for me at least its more exciting to be in the playoffs or at min hunt for them playing so called boring hockey, than a team that cant make the playoffs with "exciting" hockey

so what exactly makes you say devils will be bottom 5 but the oilers wont?

The Devils won't be as bad as everybody thinks they will. This team looks extraordinarily similar to many Devils teams in the past that look very very meh on paper and over perform. They don't have any offensive star-power, but they'll run 4 solid lines and will be a great puck possession team.

How the Devils do will depend on A) how the D plays and B) if guys like Zajac and Henrique have bounce back years.

Will they make the playoffs? Maybe, by no means a definite in their division, but I don't think they're a bottom 5 team by any means.

Also as far as trading the 9th pick for Schneider that some were talking about, I think that's a great move. Obviously scoring is important, but a very good starting goaltender is more important than 1 top 6 forward, unless if that forward is like Crosby or Stamkos or something. With the 9th pick you get a prospect, you never know exactly how they'll pan out. Schneider is at least somewhat proven to be a very good goaltender.

I don't see us adding anymore UFA's, I think maybe a trade. I'd still love to get Vanek if the price wasn't ridiculous. Buffalo wants young forwards. Maybe Loktionov+Tedenby/Josefson+maybe a conditional pick if he resigns. Our only under 30 year old players I would deem untouchable are Larsson, Henrique, Boucher, and maybe Merrill or Severson. Everyone else is fair game.

This team has one of if not the worst top nine in the league. It's very old and will finish near the bottom which sucks because you don't even get the pick.
I still think Hemskey is a player this team could use, he has been pushed to the back burner the last few years as the stack of high draft pick forwards take the minutes and lime lite. He needs a team to want him, when this happens, and it will I predict he will be in the top 25 in scoring. He has been on a terrible team these last 5 years, people also forget the only reason the Oilers had the run in 2006 was because he scored a last second goal that got them into the play offs.
- vanlee

I posted this in the last thread. Individual NJ goal projections. Throw this in with one of the best team defenses in the league fortified by a top-5 quality netminder for the first time in several years. I see 175 goals against next season. 215 goals scored as a high-end estimate, 200 as a low-end estimate. Here's the list...tell me where I am wrong in this assessment. If the Devils end the season +25 in goal differential they're likely to make the playoffs. They're certainly not finishing in the bottom five.

General projection goals by player:

Elias 26
Henrique 14
Zajac 15
Zubrus 15
Ryder 27
Clowe 17
Jagr 19
Tedenby 8
Gionta 6
Bernier 12
Carter 5
Josefson 5
Larsson 5
Salvador 2
Volchenkov 2
Fayne 3
Zidlicky 5
Greene 5
Loktionov 12
Unnamed 12
TOTAL 215

Dubnyk > Schneider>>Brodeur

Oilers>Devils

Duh

General projection goals by player:

Elias 26
Henrique 14
Zajac 15
Zubrus 15
Ryder 27
Clowe 17
Jagr 19
Tedenby 8
Gionta 6
Bernier 12
Carter 5
Josefson 5
Larsson 5
Salvador 2
Volchenkov 2
Fayne 3
Zidlicky 5
Greene 5
Loktionov 12
Unnamed 12
TOTAL 215
- BarryB1124

The ones in bold are the biggest gambles. Not sure they do what you think they will. I'm still not sold on Henrique, I think NJ fans have an inflated opinion of him based off of one epic goal. That being said, outside of Elias, Zajac (only because I'm assuming he's playing with Elias otherwise he's as big a question mark as any...massively overpaid), and possibly Jagr & Ryder, every other person you listed is a massive question mark. Some may not even play.

I know they improved on the appearance of depth, but I still see this team in the 20s as far as goals scored next season.

It's gonna be all about team defense, possession, and Schneider/Brodeur.

You have Ryder scoring more goals than Patty? Interesting.

If Clowe scores more goals than Henrique this season, then Henrique needs to be trade bait. Not taking anything away from either player, but Henrique needs to step up and be a producer for this team. I want him to hit 20G this year. That's my benchmark for him this upcoming season assuming he plays 82 games. No reason he can't.

I posted this in the last thread. Individual NJ goal projections. Throw this in with one of the best team defenses in the league fortified by a top-5 quality netminder for the first time in several years. I see 175 goals against next season. 215 goals scored as a high-end estimate, 200 as a low-end estimate. Here's the list...tell me where I am wrong in this assessment. If the Devils end the season +25 in goal differential they're likely to make the playoffs. They're certainly not finishing in the bottom five.

General projection goals by player:

Elias 26
Henrique 14
Zajac 15
Zubrus 15
Ryder 27
Clowe 17
Jagr 19
Tedenby 8
Gionta 6
Bernier 12
Carter 5
Josefson 5
Larsson 5
Salvador 2
Volchenkov 2
Fayne 3
Zidlicky 5
Greene 5
Loktionov 12
Unnamed 12
TOTAL 215
- BarryB1124

you've got Jagr down for 19 goals, I really doubt he hits that mark. He didn't score 1 in the playoffs. Clowe at 17 goals? Very very optimistic. Concussion risk and only what, 3 goals last year? double it for a full season and you have 6, say we double that again that gives him 12 and if he misses a sizeable chunk of the season I think he drops again from there.

Not going to nitpick on the rest, most look reasonable but those two stand out as best case scenarios and I'd be surprised if even one of the two hit those numbers.

you've got Jagr down for 19 goals, I really doubt he hits that mark. He didn't score 1 in the playoffs. Clowe at 17 goals? Very very optimistic. Concussion risk and only what, 3 goals last year? double it for a full season and you have 6, say we double that again that gives him 12 and if he misses a sizeable chunk of the season I think he drops again from there.

Not going to nitpick on the rest, most look reasonable but those two stand out as best case scenarios and I'd be surprised if even one of the two hit those numbers.
- Isles_since_6

Depending on Jagr's linemate's he could hit 20G next season. He had 16 last season I think. Why can't he hit 20G in a full season?

I think Clowe will hit 12. He had a lot with SJ, but he also played with Logan Couture one of those seasons he hit 20. If he's on a line with Henrique for example and Henrique has a bounce back season, he could hit 15+. If he sucks, misses time with injuries, etc, he could still hit 10-12 anyway. Something was amiss in SJ, he burst right out of his shell in NY & played well & contributed for the Rags very well in his short time there. Even with the concussion issues. I anticipate time on the IR. That's why I went with 12.

you've got Jagr down for 19 goals, I really doubt he hits that mark. He didn't score 1 in the playoffs. Clowe at 17 goals? Very very optimistic. Concussion risk and only what, 3 goals last year? double it for a full season and you have 6, say we double that again that gives him 12 and if he misses a sizeable chunk of the season I think he drops again from there.

Not going to nitpick on the rest, most look reasonable but those two stand out as best case scenarios and I'd be surprised if even one of the two hit those numbers.
- Isles_since_6

Ok now base it on career avg not 1 down year

And also base jagr on the playoffs

makes it easy when you only use something that helps you out and not the whole picture

Just playing devil's advocate for a bit, I would love to see Henrique, Clowe, Jagr, and Zajac all hit 20G next season, have 6 possible 20G guys with Elias & Ryder as well.

Unfortunately, I see that as a best case scenario, which is why I expect them to be bottom of the barrerl in scoring. But, as I mentioned, I think Brodeur & Schneider along with a return to fundamentals on defense could help this team sneak into the playoffs. Crazier things have happened.

Ok now base it on career avg not 1 down year

And also base jagr on the playoffs

makes it easy when you only use something that helps you out and not the whole picture
- dmarsden2988

How can you tell me not to base it on one season when he had 3 concussions, slowed down and couldn't shoot? I would say if he stays healthy, which is a massive concern, he scores 12 max, which is a heck of a lot more than he did last season and I still think that very generous, if I had to put money on it I'd pick 8 goals or less if he's injured.

As far as Jagr, I'd say 12-15 would be pretty generous given Jersey's defensive system and (not trying to start anything) lack of high flying offense. Keep in mind, Jagr had 14 of his 16 goals with Dallas and only 2 with Boston over the last 11 games of the regular season. I would expect him to contribute less this year.


I'm not taking shots at the Devils, I'm pointing at specific players. And just as a question, what is the bolded section of your quote referring to? I don't care how many goals a Devils player scores this season, I'm just looking at the predictions someone else made.

How can you tell me not to base it on one season when he had 3 concussions, slowed down and couldn't shoot? I would say if he stays healthy, which is a massive concern, he scores 12 max, which is a heck of a lot more than he did last season and I still think that very generous, if I had to put money on it I'd pick 8 goals or less if he's injured.

As far as Jagr, I'd say 12-15 would be pretty generous given Jersey's defensive system and (not trying to start anything) lack of high flying offense. Keep in mind, Jagr had 14 of his 16 goals with Dallas and only 2 with Boston over the last 11 games of the regular season. I would expect him to contribute less this year.


I'm not taking shots at the Devils, I'm pointing at specific players.
- Isles_since_6

again with clowe, its hard to base things off of 1 bad year in a shortened season