guess Leaf fans aren't the only ones who overvalue Leaf players.

Who here would trade Voynov for Franson straight up if you're LA?
- Big_Lightnin

Voynov is a stud.

...in a tornado!
- Marwood

Welcome back, we'll try and make your integration back into society as easy as possible. Are you staying with family or at a halfway house?

guess Leaf fans aren't the only ones who overvalue Leaf players.

Who here would trade Voynov for Franson straight up if you're LA?
- Big_Lightnin

Are u suggesting Kessel is overpaid? I mean him and Tavaras make virtually the same and Tavaras is way better? Are you not being logical or are u trolling?

This is simple math my friend. 50% overpaid is 4.5m not 6m. That is 100% overpaid.
- Bluechip23

poop typing faster than I'm thinking made the leap to if he were making $6M then $3M would be 50% underpaid...

but he ain't worth $4.5M either. 40 solid games doesn't get you $4.5M with big term. pretty huge gamble, and (frank)s them on the cap.

Are u suggesting Kessel is overpaid? I mean him and Tavaras make virtually the same and Tavaras is way better? Are you not being logical or are u trolling?
- Bieksa#3

ya... I"M trolling.

Voynov is a stud.
- Bluechip23

my point exactly...

he's not a camparable for Franson. Franon's agent might like to think he is... but he isn't.

I think a fourth rounder is fair for tootoo, His talent isnt high in demand seeing as it only consists of punching people on the face but i think a few teams might be looking for that extra Grit.

Welcome back, we'll try and make your integration back into society as easy as possible. Are you staying with family or at a halfway house?
- 1970vintage

Family. My girlfriend has strict instructions about my protocol and behavioral boundaries. Random pee testing, as well.

Tootoo is a dirty bum, I wouldn't want him anywhere near the Canucks.

This may sound dumb....Is it possible to sign a player to a one year deal then sign them to a contract extension the next day? In leafs case it would definitely help to keep that cap hit down for next year. Sign kadri and franson to one year 3 mill contracts then give them a long term contract with the money and term they want right after.
- MLeafs81

They can do it, but agents and the PA would not want that.

The NHL GM's are pushing hard for these bridge contracts. The PA and the agents don't want them. They would prefer coming out of ELC's that young budding stars get locked up to big money.

I think one of the elements that hold these deals up is that many teams want a shorter term so that said player is still an RFA at the end of the deal, rather than a UFA. I don't think it's as big a deal as you make it out to be, but that's just me.
- 1970vintage

Definitely. Then they can offer them the 8 year extension and ensure they keep the player throughout their entire prime.

Family. My girlfriend has strict instructions about my protocol and behavioral boundaries. Random pee testing, as well.
- Marwood

I have a feeling that's not going to go well, you'll need a surrogate...

Given the current market, Franson is worth 4.5(see Voynov and Josi) and Kadri is worth over 5.
- Bieksa#3

Neither Kadri or Franson has proven anything beyond a good half season. And even then Kadri cooled off significantly the last month of the season and playoffs. He is not worth more than Gagner. I think he should take 2 yrs 8 mill. Same for Franson. Problem is Toronto doesn't have the cap room for that.

Definitely. Then they can offer them the 8 year extension and ensure they keep the player throughout their entire prime.
- KB3Point0

I think GM's want to "own" as many UFA years as possible, and sign as many short deals through RFA as they can.

I have a feeling that's not going to go well, you'll need a surrogate...
- 1970vintage

Just get what Ryan braun was using. Oh wait.

Voynov is a stud.
- Bluechip23

Yeah and a better 2 way defenseman right now. Franson can match him offensively, but at times he can be suspect in his own end. 3 - 3.5 is fair for Franson, I don't see him getting more then 5/20 on a long term deal either.

I have a feeling that's not going to go well, you'll need a surrogate...
- 1970vintage

I wonder if they'll notice the elevated levels of estrogen in my 'sample'?

How about a 3rd line of Cooke, Tootoo & Torres?

Just get what Ryan braun was using. Oh wait.
- Bluechip23

Deer antler spray?

Neither Kadri or Franson has proven anything beyond a good half season. And even then Kadri cooled off significantly the last month of the season and playoffs. He is not worth more than Gagner. I think he should take 2 yrs 8 mill. Same for Franson. Problem is Toronto doesn't have the cap room for that.
- Iggysbff

I was with you till this part. Saying he hasn't proven enough then giving him $4M per?

2 yrs, $6 MAX.

play at a high level for at least a season, then he can get paid.

Franson they don't have the cap to go to $4M unfortunately. Need to get him at 2 yrs $3.75M per. I think the hold up is Nonis wants a 4 yr deal, and Franson probably wants closer to $5M if they want 2 yrs of UFA.

gonna have to remove Liles somehow to make room.

I wonder if they'll notice the elevated levels of estrogen in my 'sample'?

How about a 3rd line of Cooke, Tootoo & Torres?
- Marwood

That would be hilarious, might as well bring back Avery and get him to learn to play D so he can be on the ice at the same time

Exactly so the general public believes that pitt is one of the best teams in the league hence why they are favored. I never said I would bet on them but if you gave me Vancouver or Pitt I can tell you I aint picking Van and not many people would. DO I think they are better than Bos or Chi?? No but thats just my own analysis.

Vegas odds are built on who the favorites are. Look at the superbowl odds. anything is possible at any given moment its what we call sports. The Saints were ranked the 22nd best team when they won it.

Keep betting the farm on Van. There is a reason why they are 16:1 to win it.
- Bluechip23

I would absolutely bet on Vancouver over Pittsburgh. They have much better goaltending and defence. Pittsburgh has high end offensive talent, but they are not constructed well to win in the playoffs. They don't have anyone capable of shutting down the opposition's top scorers, they don't have the ability to prevent the opposition from scoring. They are also a worse team then they were last year, while the Canucks should be, at the very least, mildly improved (more likely significantly).

Last year Vegas had Pittsburgh as the favourites too. The Canucks and Blackhawks had equal odds, the Flyers were ahead of the Blues and Sharks, SJ was also behind the Sabres. The Sens, Leafs and Canadiens were even with the Panthers and Avalanche. The Islanders were 2nd last at 100-1, the Bluejackets were 300-1.

The Penguins beat a team Vegas had at 100-1 and then a team Vegas had at 40-1. Yeah, pretty impressive.

Do you have any rationale for thinking Pittsburgh is in the same class as Chicago and Boston other than that Vegas says so? You haven't actually provided any analysis.

I would absolutely bet on Vancouver over Pittsburgh. They have much better goaltending and defence. Pittsburgh has high end offensive talent, but they are not constructed well to win in the playoffs. They don't have anyone capable of shutting down the opposition's top scorers, they don't have the ability to prevent the opposition from scoring. They are also a worse team then they were last year, while the Canucks should be, at the very least, mildly improved (more likely significantly).

Last year Vegas had Pittsburgh as the favourites too. The Canucks and Blackhawks had equal odds, the Flyers were ahead of the Blues and Sharks, SJ was also behind the Sabres. The Sens, Leafs and Canadiens were even with the Panthers and Avalanche. The Islanders were 2nd last at 100-1, the Bluejackets were 300-1.

The Penguins beat a team Vegas had at 100-1 and then a team Vegas had at 40-1. Yeah, pretty impressive.

Do you have any rationale for thinking Pittsburgh is in the same class as Chicago and Boston other than that Vegas says so? You haven't actually provided any analysis.
- KB3Point0

There is literally no metric that would place Vancouver ahead of Pittsburgh at this point. Other than blind homerism.

There's so much self-delusion here I almost respect you for it. Almost.

I would absolutely bet on Vancouver over Pittsburgh. They have much better goaltending and defence. Pittsburgh has high end offensive talent, but they are not constructed well to win in the playoffs. They don't have anyone capable of shutting down the opposition's top scorers, they don't have the ability to prevent the opposition from scoring. They are also a worse team then they were last year, while the Canucks should be, at the very least, mildly improved (more likely significantly).

Last year Vegas had Pittsburgh as the favourites too. The Canucks and Blackhawks had equal odds, the Flyers were ahead of the Blues and Sharks, SJ was also behind the Sabres. The Sens, Leafs and Canadiens were even with the Panthers and Avalanche. The Islanders were 2nd last at 100-1, the Bluejackets were 300-1.

The Penguins beat a team Vegas had at 100-1 and then a team Vegas had at 40-1. Yeah, pretty impressive.

Do you have any rationale for thinking Pittsburgh is in the same class as Chicago and Boston other than that Vegas says so? You haven't actually provided any analysis.
- KB3Point0

So you would bet on the team that got swept in the 1st round over the team at the conference finals. LOL. At the end of the day wins matter. Van didnt win 1 game. You know that right. The leafs also were 2 min from beating the bruins does that make them better than the pens?

Pens have arguably the 2 best players in the NHL in Malkin and Crosby. To even think Vancouver is in the same class as Pitt bos and Chi is laughable.

Agree, on Tutu, no thanks. Detroit made that bed, now they have to sleep in it. If the cap is a problem for Detroit, then offer sheet him for one year and $2.5m. They can always match but then they would be forced to move someone else...
- 1970vintage

I don't think Canucks would do it but could you imagine how much fun Burrows Kesler TooToo would be to watch.

There is literally no metric that would place Vancouver ahead of Pittsburgh at this point. Other than blind homerism.

There's so much self-delusion here I almost respect you for it. Almost.
- djamon

You have to almost applaud. LOL. Every vegas bookmaker or betting site has Pitt in the top 4 of last year and even this up coming year. They have vancouver in the 6 - 10 range around 16:1 - 22:1. Yet Van is better. Vancouver fans wonder why people come on our threads and rip us.