I don't see him making it though. He gets beat wide as it is, on the bigger surface... He's fast on the rush but his foot speed and lateral are pretty poop.
- aminnes

I don't think he'll make it either, but the fact his on the list should be enough for people to stop saying he sucks.

He doesn't.


That said though, there are very few Left handed D in that camp. He very well could make it if he has a good start. He's in the top 10 because of being a Left handed LD.

Holzer is no good.
- aminnes

His cap hit is good to sit in the press box though

No comprende. Hemsky has been retained because no one wants to give up anything of value for him. Hemsky is disliked because he is soft, always injured and not very good anymore. Phaneuf has been retained because he is useful. Leaf fans don't dislike Phaneuf, they think he is overpaid, overworked and shouldn't be captain. We all know he is our best d-man, there is no one on the roster to replace him, that's why he hasn't been moved. Not the same situation at all. Comprende?
- Lipchitz

It's a shame, when he was healthy he was a talented player (Hemsky). He made other players on his line better

Not that your point isn't dumb, but we did draft Reilly as a lottery pick with dion around.
- joel878

The only reason he isn't still a minus 15-20 is they have goaltending now.

I don't think he'll make it either, but the fact his on the list should be enough for people to stop saying he sucks.

He doesn't.


That said though, there are very few Left handed D in that camp. He very well could make it if he has a good start. He's in the top 10 because of being a Left handed LD.
- Big_Lightnin

He was pretty brutal the last time he was on the big team. He doesn't suck, but he's not a top guy either.

Not that your point isn't dumb, but we did draft Reilly as a lottery pick with dion around.
- joel878

a poop ya he was 5th wasn't he

I was just making a Kessel trade joke initially, that's where Garnie got that from.

The only reason he isn't still a minus 15-20 is they have goaltending now.
- aminnes

There are very few players in the league who don't have a downside in one aspect or another. We might be talking about a handful.

It is what it is. Chase dion out of town. Finding someone better then him won't be done easily, and without giving up valuable assets. A lot of them.

Holzer's already in the original cap #'s on capgeek.
- Big_Lightnin

Doesnt really matter if you run the full numbers . You still need to add someone if you take away Liles to keep 7 D and that someone eats up most of your 950K leaving little to send Franson way. Ranger and his 1 M will be on the team anyway not Holzer.

The only reason he isn't still a minus 15-20 is they have goaltending now.
- aminnes

really? you sure it's not because he's never been minus 15 or 20 in his career?

cause I think that might be the reason.

It's a shame, when he was healthy he was a talented player (Hemsky). He made other players on his line better
- puckhead17

Truly is a shame. He was one of the best playmakers in the league before he got hurt. I remember a heated debate I got in years and years ago with a friend. He thought Spezza was the better player, I thought Hemsky was. Looks like he got the last laugh

There are very few players in the league who don't have a downside in one aspect or another. We might be talking about a handful.

It is what it is. Chase dion out of town. Finding someone better then him won't be done easily, and without giving up valuable assets. A lot of them.
- joel878

I'de love to keep him, but he'll want big d money, that's all. I don't want him gone because he sucks, it's because he can't justify the salary and minutes he gets now, so paying him even more means they can't bring in another guy. If he would sign long term for 5 mil like the guys in Chicago did, so that they could grab another guy for similar money, thats a good top pair. But as long as he is going to get top flight money, he won't have a top flight partner which to me he clearly needs in the defensive zone to justify top pairing minutes. Thus the conundrum for the club. Thats why I say trade him now and pick up another guy.

really? you sure it's not because he's never been minus 15 or 20 in his career?

cause I think that might be the reason.
- Big_Lightnin

I think he would be. Offensmen.

He was pretty brutal the last time he was on the big team. He doesn't suck, but he's not a top guy either.
- aminnes

Fact: Phaneuf has never played on the Olympic team. In international play, he has a gold and a silver at the WJC and a gold in the 2007 world championship.

Aren't you the same guy who said Phaneuf was finished after the 2004-05 lockout?

Truly is a shame. He was one of the best playmakers in the league before he got hurt. I remember a heated debate I got in years and years ago with a friend. He thought Spezza was the better player, I thought Hemsky was. Looks like he got the last laugh
- Lipchitz

I remember reading before they got all the lottery players that when a scoring forward was in a slump they would put them with him & "slump gone"

Joe Colborne for Kyle Clifford....would you pull the trigger?

No comprende. Hemsky has been retained because no one wants to give up anything of value for him. Hemsky is disliked because he is soft, always injured and not very good anymore. Phaneuf has been retained because he is useful. Leaf fans don't dislike Phaneuf, they think he is overpaid, overworked and shouldn't be captain. We all know he is our best d-man, there is no one on the roster to replace him, that's why he hasn't been moved. Not the same situation at all. Comprende?
- Lipchitz

Lots of Leaf fans dislike #3

16-17 minutes games played i know, I don't hate that they acquired Clarkson, I hope he plays well, I just don't get how so many hate Phaneuf & think he's worthless, or overpaid.
- puckhead17

There are two halfs of Leafs Nation... if you please one half the other will be pissed. Thats just how it works.

really? you sure it's not because he's never been minus 15 or 20 in his career?

cause I think that might be the reason.
- Big_Lightnin

Conversely, we could say that the only reason he's not +10 is because he's not playing with a true #2.

But if someone is determined to dump on him, no amount of objective statistics or stone cold logic will work.

Doesnt really matter if you run the full numbers . You still need to add someone if you take away Liles to keep 7 D and that someone eats up most of your 950K leaving little to send Franson way. Ranger and his 1 M will be on the team anyway not Holzer.
- D.Lemieux

right brainfarted on that one.

ya at $3.8M doesn't work.

$3.5M works with Liles in minors and Rangerr and Holzer on the big club, but just barely.


Anyone, as I said last resort. They will either trade Liles and retain $1M or so, or trade Franson for youth

I'de love to keep him, but he'll want big d money, that's all. I don't want him gone because he sucks, it's because he can't justify the salary and minutes he gets now, so paying him even more means they can't bring in another guy. If he would sign long term for 5 mil like the guys in Chicago did, so that they could grab another guy for similar money, thats a good top pair. But as long as he is going to get top flight money, he won't have a top flight partner which to me he clearly needs in the defensive zone to justify top pairing minutes. Thus the conundrum for the club. Thats why I say trade him now and pick up another guy.
- aminnes

Seabrook 5.8, Keith 5.5.

If we're to model the blackhawk theory, dion making 6 - 6.5 shouldn't be a game changer.

I don't like paying him letang money, but I don't think he has leverage to get it without the open market.

All depends on what's important to dion, and what his intentions are.

Joe Colborne for Kyle Clifford....would you pull the trigger?
- ThePresident

... if the gun is aimed at Lombardi's head, you'd have to pull it to get him to take that trade.

And Leafs don't have the cap, Clifford's unsigned.

Jesus (frank)ing christ. Are the Sabres bloggers having a competition over who can put out the most useless blogs per day?

Seabrook 5.8, Keith 5.5.

If we're to model the blackhawk theory, dion making 6 - 6.5 shouldn't be a game changer.

I don't like paying him letang money, but I don't think he has leverage to get it without the open market.

All depends on what's important to dion, and what his intentions are.
- joel878

Keith's deal is a big cap circumventor though... his cap should be over $7M per

Joe Colborne for Kyle Clifford....would you pull the trigger?
- ThePresident

Yes

Seabrook 5.8, Keith 5.5.

If we're to model the blackhawk theory, dion making 6 - 6.5 shouldn't be a game changer.

I don't like paying him letang money, but I don't think he has leverage to get it without the open market.

All depends on what's important to dion, and what his intentions are.
- joel878

Thats a big risk. All I know is the Leafs will not win the Cup with him playing as much as he does, period.