ahem, check J Bo's salary
- puckhead17

You mean the deal he signed 3 years ago that is widely regarded as a terrible overpayment by Sutter?

And you're not getting our of the bottom 5 without him or a suitable replacement.

You think we'll never win a cup with Phaneuf, but put Franson in his slot and the only thing we'll be competing for is last place in the conference.
- Leeman4Gilmour

I'm not saying put Franson in hi s"slot", I'm saying have 4 solid guys and split up the time. They don't have to have one guy playing 28 minutes a night to be a good team. Plus the more Franson plays, the better he gets, so he hasn't reached his ceiling. He was the best guy against Boston and he played agianst great players, both of their top 2 lines are very good. Krechi lit it up playing against Dion.

still no. Lupul's just hitting his prime. I'd consider trading Kessel before Lupul (just cause the return would at least be worth it.)
- Big_Lightnin

and now it's complete

top scoring winger & top D man both considered $hit


Leaf nation

Brewers a pylon.
- joel878

I dont think hes a pylon at all he was +3 this season and hes playing on a team with goalie issues.

ahem, check J Bo's salary
- puckhead17

you want me to take a HB poll and see how many people think Jay-bo is better than Dion?

Check Letang's salary.

Now you be Dion's agent and convince me how he's worth Letang money.

I had to read it twice
- Big_Lightnin

Yeah. Not as effective as I imagined.

and now it's complete

top scoring winger & top D man both considered $hit


Leaf nation
- puckhead17

you are very bad at reading.

You mean the deal he signed 3 years ago that is widely regarded as a terrible overpayment by Sutter?
- Leeman4Gilmour

overpayment yes, but Dion's agent doing his job will get him similar, did you notice what Clarkson got? for one good year??

I dont think hes a pylon at all he was +3 this season and hes playing on a team with goalie issues.
- jake24242

Either way, I think it would be a massive underpayment for franson.

I'm not saying put Franson in hi s"slot", I'm saying have 4 solid guys and split up the time. They don't have to have one guy playing 28 minutes a night to be a good team. Plus the more Franson plays, the better he gets, so he hasn't reached his ceiling. He was the best guy against Boston and he played agianst great players, both of their top 2 lines are very good. Krechi lit it up playing against Dion.
- aminnes

It's not as simple as just "splitting up the time".

Not one contender has ever won with a defense by committee. The problem is that you need a top defenseman to match top forwards.

Against Crosby and Ovechkin, you can't just cycle your pairings to each play a third of the time against them. That's a recipe for disaster.

you want me to take a HB poll and see how many people think Jay-bo is better than Dion?

Check Letang's salary.

Now you be Dion's agent and convince me how he's worth Letang money.
- Big_Lightnin

it's called inflation, Clarkson's $$$ for one good year? & Dion's position is in greater demand

you are very bad at reading.
- Big_Lightnin

no you keep Lupul who will be hurt every other year unload Kessel, (for the return), I read ya

I'm not saying put Franson in hi s"slot", I'm saying have 4 solid guys and split up the time. They don't have to have one guy playing 28 minutes a night to be a good team. Plus the more Franson plays, the better he gets, so he hasn't reached his ceiling. He was the best guy against Boston and he played agianst great players, both of their top 2 lines are very good. Krechi lit it up playing against Dion.
- aminnes

In Theory sounds good. Problem is, they don't have 4 guys capable of splitting up his minutes if he's not 1 of those 4 guys.

Gunnar is a poor mans #2, but he's the best we got. Franson can't PK. He does, but shouldn't. Neither should Gardner. Neither should Liles.

They'd have to blow up the whole D and build it differently, which just isn't going to happen.

They really can't afford to move Dion, unless they are willing to take a major step back the next 2 years, and rebuild the D entirely around youth... Pretty sure they aren't going to do that.

overpayment yes, but Dion's agent doing his job will get him similar, did you notice what Clarkson got? for one good year??
- puckhead17

This is true.

If dion hits the open market he could get way overpaid.

I imagine something in the range of 15-20 players on the top of the free agent group get stupidly overpaid every summer.

One of the reasons this team was in such great financial shape is because Burke didn't get caught up in the ridiculous money that flies around in free agency. Nonis undid that pretty fast.

overpayment yes, but Dion's agent doing his job will get him similar, did you notice what Clarkson got? for one good year??
- puckhead17

Yes, Phaneuf may get similar money. But his current cap hit is 6.5 and JBo's is 6.6.

Big whoop. I think most believe around here believe that Phaneuf isn't going to get significantly more than he currently makes.

Like I said, a front-loaded 6.5 for 6 years gets it done.

Beautifully worded. 100% agree. You plan for him to be bottom pairing and if he turns out to be more than that (which is quite possible), thats great.
- pbrsimps

In Tampa, he was a top pairing D-man... No reason to believe he can't regain that form. Dude is only 28, it's not like he is 38 and coming out of retirement.

There were a lot of suitors for him, but he only wanted to play in Toronto

it's called inflation, Clarkson's $$$ for one good year? & Dion's position is in greater demand
- puckhead17

inflation is 3%, not 20.

thanks for playing.

If you think Clarkson's only had 1 good year, you need to go away now.

In Theory sounds good. Problem is, they don't have 4 guys capable of splitting up his minutes if he's not 1 of those 4 guys.

Gunnar is a poor mans #2, but he's the best we got. Franson can't PK. He does, but shouldn't. Neither should Gardner. Neither should Liles.

They'd have to blow up the whole D and build it differently, which just isn't going to happen.

They really can't afford to move Dion, unless they are willing to take a major step back the next 2 years, and rebuild the D entirely around youth... Pretty sure they aren't going to do that.
- Big_Lightnin

I agree with all of this, except Gunnar. He is a 4-5 guy on any competitive team.

We are a year and a bit removed from 90% of these boards wanting his head on a plate, and hip or no hip. He hasn't exact been better since.

This is true.

If dion hits the open market he could get way overpaid.

I imagine something in the range of 15-20 players on the top of the free agent group get stupidly overpaid every summer.

One of the reasons this team was in such great financial shape is because Burke didn't get caught up in the ridiculous money that flies around in free agency. Nonis undid that pretty fast.
- joel878

and received 5 more years for doing so, like Phanuef or hate him, he's a big physical D man playing a ton of minutes with an offensive game, he'll be in great demand

In Tampa, he was a top pairing D-man... No reason to believe he can't regain that form. Dude is only 28, it's not like he is 38 and coming out of retirement.

There were a lot of suitors for him, but he only wanted to play in Toronto
- PatC80

I don't think Tampa is the greatest measuring stick for a defenseman's ability.

no you keep Lupul who will be hurt every other year unload Kessel, (for the return), I read ya
- puckhead17

trading Lupul would be difficult to realize good return and improve the team. Kessel you could.

But was really just a point for emphasis on the entire bad idea being suggested, which you missed, because you are bad at reading.

In Tampa, he was a top pairing D-man... No reason to believe he can't regain that form. Dude is only 28, it's not like he is 38 and coming out of retirement.

There were a lot of suitors for him, but he only wanted to play in Toronto
- PatC80

Have the personal reasons ever come out? Seems like the Leafs may have lucked in to a solid player without competition for his services.

It's not as simple as just "splitting up the time".

Not one contender has ever won with a defense by committee. The problem is that you need a top defenseman to match top forwards.

Against Crosby and Ovechkin, you can't just cycle your pairings to each play a third of the time against them. That's a recipe for disaster.
- Leeman4Gilmour

That may be true, but he isn't a top guy, never was. No one saw him that way until he was given the role by a dumb coach. I like Dion as a top four guy even a top pair guy, but he isn't in the same league as those top guys, neither is Letang, and Pitts in gonna regret that deal. Dions nums agianst those guys are terrible. I'll grant you - if they find a d man of that ilk I'm all over it, but Dion Phaeuf simply isn't that guy. He is a brutal positional defender who can't handle the speed of the top guys in the league. He is a defacto number one because of the very young defense and because of the letter on his jersey, but he couldn't hold a candle to the best guys in the league. As far as Norris votes, I disagree with the trophy winners 2 thirds of the time, and those guys opinions are no more valid than you or i.

inflation is 3%, not 20.

thanks for playing.

If you think Clarkson's only had 1 good year, you need to go away now.
- Big_Lightnin

seriously? what r u drinking? he's had one 30 goal 46 point year, that's it, other than that a high of 32 points? for over $5 million a year for 7 years? And everyone think Phanuef should take a pay cut?

inflation is 3%, not 20.

thanks for playing.

If you think Clarkson's only had 1 good year, you need to go away now.
- Big_Lightnin

Yeah, he's had 1.5 good years.



Really though.. Not wanting to open that can of worms. There are a list of things that are so far past beaten to death on here its not even funny. Clarkson is one of them.

I've got a cyanide tablet prepped for the next Clarkson, bozak/grabovski, or phaneuf debates.