Boston less, the others it's a 1 player difference. But the forward numbers are pretty much the same, with the exception of say Bolland. Replace him with a cheaper option, you're there.

But keeping Franson at $5M doesn't help the D get better. It definitely prevents it from getting better down the road.
- Big_Lightnin

Franson really doesn't have any leverage, that's for sure.

If the Norris Trophy winner got his ass sent to purgatory for several games, surely Franson can learn his lesson the hard way, too.

Who is going to offer sheet Franson? The teams that could pay him big money have no cap space. And if a small market team gives him 5 million, I'd be happy to take their first round pick because it could easily be top 5 or 10.

Unless the cap doesn't go up a whole lot, no one knows for sure.
- aminnes

The only year in Cap history it didn't go up by at least $2.5M was after the 08-09 season when economy was in the toilet in the US.

was on average a $5M increase under the cap model for the last 3 years.

It's going up, how much remains to be seen, but I think a very low estimate is $3-4M

But I'll be surprised if it isn't back to $70M next season.

I really don't see how picking up a couple 6/7 types at a million a piece is stopping us from signing Franson. We would always have needed those guys, anyway.

Franson's ridiculous demands coupled with Nonis' questionable judgment on a couple moves is getting in the way right now.

Say what you will about Burke, but at least we never had the slightest salary cap problem when he was here.
- Leeman4Gilmour

Yeah - the cap was great, team not so much. Think there's a co-relation?

Franson really doesn't have any leverage, that's for sure.

If the Norris Trophy winner got his ass sent to purgatory for several games, surely Franson can learn his lesson the hard way, too.

Who is going to offer sheet Franson? The teams that could pay him big money have no cap space. And if a small market team gives him 5 million, I'd be happy to take their first round pick because it could easily be top 5 or 10.
- Leeman4Gilmour

That was prior to him winning the norris.

The leafs need a top 2 D other then Gunner that is a 100% shut down D. And if we where to trade Franson for one of those the leafs could get a very good one. And after all this talk i am leaning toward ya trade Franson for that shut down D the lines would look better IMO.

Phaneuf new player
Gardiner Gunnerson
Ranger Reilly
- jake24242

Might get some flack for this, but what about Franson and Lupul for Kevin Shattenkirk? Would STL do it?

The only year in Cap history it didn't go up by at least $2.5M was after the 08-09 season when economy was in the toilet in the US.

was on average a $5M increase under the cap model for the last 3 years.

It's going up, how much remains to be seen, but I think a very low estimate is $3-4M

But I'll be surprised if it isn't back to $70M next season.
- Big_Lightnin

Another thing to consider, if it goes up a lot, the salaries will go up in relation. So a 7 million dollar guy at a 64 mil cap, is now an 8 mil guy with a 70, maybe even more on the open market. MEaning to keep Phil and Dion is costing minimum 15 million if the cap goes up.

I would trade Dion for that, he's all offense now anyway, have lots of those and Franson produces more and more with more ice time.
- aminnes

Yes, Phaneuf is all offense... Except for a the stats that show he was easily our best defender, as well.

If anyone is all offense, it's Franson. Give that guy Phaneuf's minutes and he'd be lucky to sign for 2 million, let alone 5.

That was prior to him winning the norris.
- aminnes

You see that thing flying up there? It's the point sailing over your head.

On another note, 6 outdoor games? thats pretty poop if you ask me. Way to many in one year.
- aminnes

cause they make an assload of money, and the league likes money.

hence cap will go up.

Might get some flack for this, but what about Franson and Lupul for Kevin Shattenkirk? Would STL do it?
- PatC80

Even if they wanted to, they have their own cap issues. They couldn't take on am extra 3-5 mil. No chance.

Might get some flack for this, but what about Franson and Lupul for Kevin Shattenkirk? Would STL do it?
- PatC80

Was their really that much of a difference between a 24 year old shattenkirk and a 25 year old Franson to warrant the inclusion of an all star lw?

Yes, Phaneuf is all offense... Except for a the stats that show he was easily our best defender, as well.

If anyone is all offense, it's Franson. Give that guy Phaneuf's minutes and he'd be lucky to sign for 2 million, let alone 5.
- Leeman4Gilmour

Franson was good defensively so far as his role was. But Dion is reallt bad in his own end, I'm sorry to disagree but... Give Franson his minutes and he'll bag 50 points, at least. We don't need to argue, I just think Dion is crap defensively.

cause they make an assload of money, and the league likes money.

hence cap will go up.
- Big_Lightnin

I'm speaking as a fan, watered down I'de say.

Yeah - the cap was great, team not so much. Think there's a co-relation?
- Deeps27

Yes, and the correlation was that by not signing guys for ridiculously long term deals (Brad Richards), he didn't improve the team in the short term, but it's paying off now.

You see that thing flying up there? It's the point sailing over your head.
- Leeman4Gilmour

He held out and lost prior to the norris trophy, so you can't use that as a basis for the money he got. If he was RFA after this past year he would have gotten way more money than he did.

I would trade Dion for that, he's all offense now anyway, have lots of those and Franson produces more and more with more ice time.
- aminnes

Phaneuf has less value is the problem and has 1 year left on a big contract. Could get way more from Franson who is younger and needs new contract now.

Was their really that much of a difference between a 24 year old shattenkirk and a 25 year old Franson to warrant the inclusion of an all star lw?
- mykokes

Shedding ~$4-$5.5M in cap space is the only motivation I can see. Rather have Lupul and Franson though.

Liles, who is UNTRADEABLE, should have been traded... ok, well, you fax Nonis the deal you've found for him and he'll get right on it I'm sure.

Gunarrson, who is out ONLY dman capable of playing top pair, who would have gotten over $4M in Arbitration, had to be resigned or would have left a bigger hole than Franson.

You have no clue what you are talking about with Ranger. Brennan is $650k and the cheapest 7th dman we could possibly have to sit in the press box and not eat any cap space.

So, for a 3rd time, since you haven't answered the questions. Regardless of any other factors, would you sign Franson for 4 yrs, $5M per?
- Big_Lightnin

no

Phaneuf has less value is the problem and has 1 year left on a big contract. Could get way more from Franson who is younger and needs new contract now.
- jake24242

And then what? Pay dion 7 plus mil or he walks too? No thanks.

Phaneuf has less value is the problem and has 1 year left on a big contract. Could get way more from Franson who is younger and needs new contract now.
- jake24242

And then what? Pay dion 7 plus mil or he walks too? No thanks.

Might get some flack for this, but what about Franson and Lupul for Kevin Shattenkirk? Would STL do it?
- PatC80

I wouldn't even consider that from the leafs no way im giving 2 60 point players for shattenkirk.

And then what? Pay dion 7 plus mil or he walks too? No thanks.
- aminnes

I see what your saying but they would trade Phaneuf also if they cant get him signed for less.

Another thing to consider, if it goes up a lot, the salaries will go up in relation. So a 7 million dollar guy at a 64 mil cap, is now an 8 mil guy with a 70, maybe even more on the open market. MEaning to keep Phil and Dion is costing minimum 15 million if the cap goes up.
- aminnes

Doesn't really work like that though. Top line money has been more or less the same (Cap hits anyway) the last several years despite the cap going up over $20M, with only 1 or 2 exceptions.

Dion isn't worth more just cause there is more room. Neither is Kessel. Unless it goes up $20M. a 7-8% increase in total cap doesn't increase a players value 20%.

And Leafs have most of their forwards locked in long term. Kadri's about to get at least 2 yrs, everybody else is 5 or more. Only 1 is Kessel, and a he will sign long term as well.

all the rising cap can be spent on D.

Might get some flack for this, but what about Franson and Lupul for Kevin Shattenkirk? Would STL do it?
- PatC80

I wouldn't trade Lupul for Shattenkirk straight up.

Franson was good defensively so far as his role was. But Dion is reallt bad in his own end, I'm sorry to disagree but... Give Franson his minutes and he'll bag 50 points, at least. We don't need to argue, I just think Dion is crap defensively.
- aminnes

Franson would be so busy picking the puck out if his net, that he'd never have the chance to score 50 points.

Face it: Franson was the most sheltered defenseman in the lineup last year. 3rd pairing minutes/opponents for most of the year plus PP time.

You may think Phaneuf was terrible defensively, but he played far and away the most minutes, including short handed minutes.

Over the course of an entire season playing with scrubs against the hardest opponents in the league with the most defensive zone starts on the team, he still landed himself 11th in Norris voting and finished -4.

For comparison, Kronwall, Weber, and Pietrangelo also failed to finish as plus players. That's what happens when you play 25 minutes a night as a top pairing defenseman.